Kentmere "Art Classic"

sanking · Jul 15, 2009

I recently came across some Kentmere "Art Classic" paper in 16X20" size. This paper has an interesting surface that I like a lot for carbon transfer prints. Is this one of the papers that Ilford discontinued on acquiring Kentmere, or is by chance still being made?

Sandy

Ian Grant · Jul 15, 2009

The paper base isn't available Kentmere discontinued it well before the takeover.

Ian

sanking · Jul 15, 2009

Ian Grant said:
The paper base isn't available Kentmere discontinued it well before the takeover.

Ian

Oh well, about as I feared. Not much diversity in paper surfaces left out there for silver printers. At least I can always size watercolor papers for carbon transfer, even if it is a bit messy and takes a time.

Sandy King

Ian Grant · Jul 15, 2009

Size your paper using a wall paper sponge roller, or think about spraying the size through a sparaygun, I used to coat photographic emulsion that way (spraygun).

Ian

AlanC · Jul 15, 2009

Sandy,
No doubt you have access to a good range of watercolour paper in the US. Some wonderful ones are available here, as a company has been busy re-creating old papers such as were used by Turner, David Cox and Girtin. These are available at the Heaton Cooper Studio in Grasmere in the Lake District. They have a web site and do mail order.

Alan Clark

sanking · Jul 15, 2009

Ian Grant said:
Size your paper using a wall paper sponge roller, or think about spraying the size through a sparaygun, I used to coat photographic emulsion that way (spraygun).

Ian

I need a fairly thick coating for carbon transfer printing. Typically I use about 200 ml of an 8% gelatin solution for a sheet of 22X30" watercolor paper. I apply this to the paper on a leveled surface, and then spread the emulsion with a hot threaded rod that leaves a wet height of about 0.4mm. The mechanism of coating is similar to what I do when making carbon tissue, exept that I use less solution for a given surface area. The threaded rod not only leaves a coating of uniform thickness, but used also dissipates surface bubbles that form when the gelatin solution begins to cool.

Sandy King

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 15, 2009

Sandy,

Have you looked into the Foma textured surfaces? The Fomatone 542-II warmtone fine art, Fomatone 133 warmtone Velvet, Fomatone 532-II neutral fine art, and the Fomabrom 123 which has a surface much reminiscent of the Agfa 118?

Those could be interesting to you.

- Thomas

VaryaV · Jul 15, 2009

I love the Foma Chamois paper - it's gorgeous and magical with grays.

Ian Grant · Jul 15, 2009

Sandy, it would be interesting ton see how you do this, are there any articles or online example.

Ian

Thomas Bertilsson · Jul 15, 2009

I think the Foma Chamois, the original 532 and 542 have been discontinued. I'm not sure if the new 542-II and 532-II have exactly the same surface or not.

VaryaV · Jul 15, 2009

Thomas Bertilsson said:
I think the Foma Chamois, the original 532 and 542 have been discontinued. I'm not sure if the new 542-II and 532-II have exactly the same surface or not.

Oh, no...... this is not good. It's one of my favorite papers. Say it ain't so.

sanking · Jul 15, 2009

Ian Grant said:
Sandy, it would be interesting ton see how you do this, are there any articles or online example.

Ian

Ian,

I have an article on-line that illustrates how I make carbon tissue. See http://www.alternativephotography.com/articles/art110.html

If you look carefully at this illustrations you see that I am using a large coating rod, with the depth of the tissue defined by the height of the flexible magnetic strips placed as a border around the paper. The only difference between this and my method of sizing paper is that when sizing paper I run the threaded rod inside of the flexible magnetic strips, and the depth of the threads determines the thickness of the coating rather than the magnetic strips.

Sandy King

Ian Grant · Jul 15, 2009

OK, makes sense now "pre-heated" that was what I couldn't fathom, I was expecting something far more complex.

But why that way, isn't it much easier to pull towards you when coating ?

Ian

sanking · Jul 15, 2009

Ian Grant said:
OK, makes sense now "pre-heated" that was what I couldn't fathom, I was expecting something far more complex.

But why that way, isn't it much easier to pull towards you when coating ?

Ian

Ian,

I just roll the rod, with no pressure. The coating procedure works equally well rolling from left to right, right to left, or to and away from me. The weight of the rod is sufficient to ensure good contact all across the coating area, and all that is needed is one finger to roll it.

Sandy

Ian Grant · Jul 15, 2009

Sandy, sometime we'll have to meet up. One day I'll come down of my purity perch

I went up there after years of being a photo-chemist (for work) and experimenting, I'd had enough I just wanted to make images.

Ian

aluk · Jul 15, 2009

VaryaV said:
Oh, no...... this is not good. It's one of my favorite papers. Say it ain't so.

The original 532 and 542 papers were discontinued months ago - last fall, if not earlier; the new ones are not coated on the same textured paper, though the emulsion is unchanged (I believe).

sanking · Jul 15, 2009

Ian Grant said:
Sandy, sometime we'll have to meet up. One day I'll come down of my purity perch

I went up there after years of being a photo-chemist (for work) and experimenting, I'd had enough I just wanted to make images.

Ian

Ian,

Congratulations for being able to think outside of the restrictive environment of your work environment. Many people with wide experience in a specialized field, say photo chemistry or engineering, are simply not capable of adopting alternative ways of doing things, even when those ways hold out the promise of much greater simplicity.

Sandy King

Yojimbo 01 · Nov 21, 2011

I know there seems to be regular stock appearing on Ebay (possibly from Jacobs in London if I recall) normally 20 x 24 sheets and listed as cold stored old stock. There is also some 10 x 8 available on Ebay at the moment - Item number 120811468140.

Simon R Galley · Nov 22, 2011

The last coatings of 'ART CLASSIC' at KENTMERE were over 6 years ago as the base was no longer made.

One of the reasons we launched ILFORD ART 300 was to bring to the market a fine art base product.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited.

Thomas Bertilsson · Nov 23, 2011

Simon R Galley said:
The last coatings of 'ART CLASSIC' at KENTMERE were over 6 years ago as the base was no longer made.

One of the reasons we launched ILFORD ART 300 was to bring to the market a fine art base product.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited.

The Ilford Art 300 is a wonderful substitute, Ian. While not quite the same as either the Kentmere or Foma, in its own right the Art 300 is stunningly beautiful. There is real 'depth' to the surface, and I have a secret private dream of you trying other surfaces.
But what excites me the most is that you're not coating your fine emulsion on a traditional baryta base. That's a very clever move for the future, and it helps me stay in a positive state of mind about future availability.

gandolfi · Nov 23, 2011

OOH how I dislike Ebay sometimes.... Here I watched the lot Kentmere Art Classic just sold...

Wrote the seller and he would be happy to ship to Denmark.

But Ebay wouldn't let me bid!! And they wouldn't let him change his settings so I could make a bid......

50 sheets 8x10 Kentmere Art Classic went for 31£.... I was willing to bid about 100£ higher...

CRAP!!

(I know the new Ilford Art 300 is supposed to be good - I have ordered a pack to try, but I was still willing to pay double up for the Kentmere....)

(And I thought Ebay wanted to earn money...)

Simon R Galley · Nov 24, 2011

Dear Gandolfi,

Firstly, I like your work...I always check it out.

The ART 300 has a more textured surface than the old 'ART CLASSIC' it also has a little more of a sheen to the surface, I hope you like it.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

gandolfi · Nov 24, 2011

Hi Simon.
thanks - I am sure I will. Maybe I was just struck by a nostalgic feeling. I knew the Art Classic well - but my girlfriend has only heard of it... so I wanted to give her a pack of both for christmas: Art 300 and Art Classic...

The Art 300 has arrived - I am now searching for Art Classic...

All the best.

Simon R Galley said:
Dear Gandolfi,

Firstly, I like your work...I always check it out.

The ART 300 has a more textured surface than the old 'ART CLASSIC' it also has a little more of a sheen to the surface, I hope you like it.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Simon R Galley · Nov 24, 2011

I hope you find some for her.

Simon.

Kentmere "Art Classic"

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