Kentmere after Ilford Purchase?

tommy5c · Mar 31, 2008

So I am wondering if anyone knows of any planned changes to the Kentmere line after the recent Ilford purchase. I am becoming a huge fan of the Kentmere papers and the tonal quality. I just fear meddling in the formula. Any thoughts.

david b · Mar 31, 2008

I fear a meddling in the price.

Uncle Bill · Mar 31, 2008

To my understanding and Simon Galley can clarify, while Ilford now owns Kentmere, they are keeping as a seperate paper line with it's unique recipe. The big plus point is from sourcing the raw materials, Ilford can cut a better deal with it's suppliers.

I am a big fan of Kentmere VC Fineprint FB and Select RC paper ranges as well as the Ilford film line. I'm not losing sleep because Ilford won't mess around with a good thing, it would not be in their interests to do so.

Shawn Dougherty · Mar 31, 2008

Uncle Bill said:
I'm not losing sleep because Ilford won't mess around with a good thing, it would not be in their interests to do so.

Based on what? If it makes business sense to start choppin' products why wouldn't they? I'm buying as much Kentona as my meager budget allows. POP is already history....

Guillaume Zuili · Mar 31, 2008

Shawn, Why do you think POP is over ?
G.

rusty71 · Mar 31, 2008

Shawn Dougherty said:
Based on what? If it makes business sense to start choppin' products why wouldn't they? I'm buying as much Kentona as my meager budget allows. POP is already history....

Curious response. If Kodak made such decision the flak would fly....

Photo Engineer · Mar 31, 2008

Tested side by side, Ilford and Kenmtere papers indicate totally different emulsion design parameters. That is, if anyone cares. Kentmere emulsions illustrate older methodology, but Ilford emulsions illustrate a mix of old and new which is perplexing to me.

PE

David A. Goldfarb · Mar 31, 2008

My understanding of the POP situation was that they had a bad emulsion batch (or maybe it was they had to change the paper base and needed to adjust the emulsion for it) and were working on fixing it.

Stephanie Brim · Mar 31, 2008

Shawn Dougherty said:
Based on what? If it makes business sense to start choppin' products why wouldn't they? I'm buying as much Kentona as my meager budget allows. POP is already history....

Ilford has stated many times that they're dedicated to preserving the art of B&W. Perhaps this is just another thing they feel they can do?

I wouldn't automatically assume that Ilford is going to travel the low road.

tommy5c · Mar 31, 2008

See this is why we rely on you PE. i look at my printing when i use Ilford and when I use Kentmere and my response is I like the "feel" of the Kentmere more. I just want to find out if i need to re-fi my home so i can buy enough paper. I really don't want to start searching for a paper that gives me the same feel as i get from an image when I use Kentmere. I have nothing against, Ilford I like there papers and their film, but I do have favorites like everyone else.

Photo Engineer said:
Tested side by side, Ilford and Kenmtere papers indicate totally different emulsion design parameters. That is, if anyone cares. Kentmere emulsions illustrate older methodology, but Ilford emulsions illustrate a mix of old and new which is perplexing to me.

PE

Guillaume Zuili · Mar 31, 2008

Same as David, B&S has this statement.

Photo Engineer · Mar 31, 2008

tommy5c said:
See this is why we rely on you PE. i look at my printing when i use Ilford and when I use Kentmere and my response is I like the "feel" of the Kentmere more. I just want to find out if i need to re-fi my home so i can buy enough paper. I really don't want to start searching for a paper that gives me the same feel as i get from an image when I use Kentmere. I have nothing against, Ilford I like there papers and their film, but I do have favorites like everyone else.

Thanks.

The Kentmere paper seems to develop differently, and respond to changes in process differently. I would guess Lith processing of the two papers would be totally different in response.

I love Kentmere papers and have used them under their own label and under other labels.

I suspect that they are noodle washed, while Ilford uses a mix of UF and ISO wash. I suspect a lot more, but that is for another time and place. I just hope that Ilford can duplicate that subtle Kentmere 'flavor' that I love. Of course, part of that comes from the specialty supports only Kentmere used. I never saw the Kentmere "Super Rough" from Ilford.

I was working with Kentmere on paper types when this all went down and now wonder what will take place. (Simon are you there? PM me) This means a lot to me in my development work.

PE

keeds · Apr 1, 2008

Damn, I hope POP survives the move. I'm just starting to get the hang of it I think and it produces some beautiful colours and tones.

Simon R Galley · Apr 1, 2008

Dear All,

When HARMAN technology took over the business we stated that we would maintain the entire family of KENTMERE products, absolutely nothing has changed whatsoever, POP has been manufactured and we continue to look ( but have not yet found ) for a suitable base to re-introduce Art Document.....

Our committment to monochrome is not a 'marketing statement' its a passion as well as a business, hence the recent agreement with Paterson.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

keeds · Apr 1, 2008

Thanks Simon, I think some confusion comes from suppliers. Retrophotographic now only list 12x16 in POP, Silverprint don't list 8x10 anymore and B&S in the States say that it is not available at all...

Bob F. · Apr 1, 2008

From a previous post, the last batch of Kentmere manufactured POP appears to be heading to Chicago Albumen Works once finished by Harman. The previous batch from Kentmere apparently had defects so supply has been drying up.

Bob.

Shawn Dougherty · Apr 1, 2008

Simon R Galley said:
Dear All,

When HARMAN technology took over the business we stated that we would maintain the entire family of KENTMERE products, absolutely nothing has changed whatsoever, POP has been manufactured and we continue to look ( but have not yet found ) for a suitable base to re-introduce Art Document.....

Our committment to monochrome is not a 'marketing statement' its a passion as well as a business, hence the recent agreement with Paterson.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

That's great, Simon. I heard several things regarding POP (through the grapevine) and was begging to fret over the fate of Kentona. Thanks for popping in and setting me straight. All the best. Shawn

Chazzy · Apr 1, 2008

Given Ilford's new policy on re-branded products, I suppose we won't see re-branded Kentmere at Freestyle any more, once the current supply runs out?

Alex Bishop-Thorpe · Apr 1, 2008

Simon previously stated that the Kentmere-Freestyle deal will remain intact, if I remember correctly.
Really, Kentmere is still going about things as it's own seperate company by my understanding. It wasnt bought by Ilford, it was bought by Harman, tha parent of Ilford. Very minor technical point, but it puts it in perspective I think.

mikez · Apr 2, 2008

Simon R Galley said:
Dear All,

When HARMAN technology took over the business we stated that we would maintain the entire family of KENTMERE products, absolutely nothing has changed whatsoever, POP has been manufactured and we continue to look ( but have not yet found ) for a suitable base to re-introduce Art Document.....

Our committment to monochrome is not a 'marketing statement' its a passion as well as a business, hence the recent agreement with Paterson.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

Bravo. Glad to hear. I just did a paper test for my Photo course. Printing the same negative on several papers and using several print developers, I think I had around 80 total prints. I wanted to do more, but it became overly redudant. Still I learned a lot. Kentmere's papers were some of my favorites as were Ilford WTFB and MCC111

Kentmere after Ilford Purchase?

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