Kenthene III: The Search for a New Paper

[dhkirby]

Hello all,

It seems to have been missed here, but I believe that my beloved paper of the last I-don't-know-how-long, Kentmere Kenthene, has been lost to us. There hasn't been a press release of its discontinuation (that I can find), but it started becoming very difficult to find about a year ago (I refer you to the thread (there was a url link here which no longer exists)) and has now disappeared from Kentmere's website, as well as all suppliers I could find. I emailed in to Kentmere support at Harman for clarification, but I haven't heard anything back yet (that was about a week ago), so I am assuming the worst.

Which means that I must search for a new paper. My gut reaction is to go to Ilfospeed. Kenthene having been a graded RC paper, Ilfospeed is probably the closest thing on the market to it. I am worried about how much longer it'll be around considering the release a few days ago of its being discontinued in speeds other than 2 and 3. The problem there is that I've heard (from Keith Tapscott via the above thread) there's a discrepancy in the grading between Ilford and Kentmere papers, that grade 2 Kentmere is more equivalent to grade 3 Ilford, which is worrisome to me because grade 3 was the grade of Kenthene I used most (which would then be equivalent to grade 4 Ilfospeed, which is now discontinued). Can anyone attest to that? I've also read that Slavich is very good, but I know less about it than I do about Ilfospeed. Any info there would be very helpful.

Another option would be to make the jump into variable contrast paper. I've dabbled with MGIV but I haven't been very happy with my results in general. In a couple of instances when I was working with a neg whose exposure I missed it really saved me, but I find that it really lacks the lovely, rich blacks that Kenthene gave me. I'm working on getting to know this paper better, but in the meantime, is there another VC paper that might do the trick? What do people know about Kentmere VC Select? Oriental Seagull?

Other suggestions would be v. welcome. I do want to try out fibre-based in the future, but I think the RC workflow works best for me right now.

Thanks much,
Dan

 

[Lachlan Young]

Hello all,

It seems to have been missed here, but I believe that my beloved paper of the last I-don't-know-how-long, Kentmere Kenthene, has been lost to us. There hasn't been a press release of its discontinuation (that I can find), but it started becoming very difficult to find about a year ago (I refer you to the thread (there was a url link here which no longer exists)) and has now disappeared from Kentmere's website, as well as all suppliers I could find. I emailed in to Kentmere support at Harman for clarification, but I haven't heard anything back yet (that was about a week ago), so I am assuming the worst.

Which means that I must search for a new paper. My gut reaction is to go to Ilfospeed. Kenthene having been a graded RC paper, Ilfospeed is probably the closest thing on the market to it. I am worried about how much longer it'll be around considering the release a few days ago of its being discontinued in speeds other than 2 and 3. The problem there is that I've heard (from Keith Tapscott via the above thread) there's a discrepancy in the grading between Ilford and Kentmere papers, that grade 2 Kentmere is more equivalent to grade 3 Ilford, which is worrisome to me because grade 3 was the grade of Kenthene I used most (which would then be equivalent to grade 4 Ilfospeed, which is now discontinued). Can anyone attest to that? I've also read that Slavich is very good, but I know less about it than I do about Ilfospeed. Any info there would be very helpful.

Another option would be to make the jump into variable contrast paper. I've dabbled with MGIV but I haven't been very happy with my results in general. In a couple of instances when I was working with a neg whose exposure I missed it really saved me, but I find that it really lacks the lovely, rich blacks that Kenthene gave me. I'm working on getting to know this paper better, but in the meantime, is there another VC paper that might do the trick? What do people know about Kentmere VC Select? Oriental Seagull?

Other suggestions would be v. welcome. I do want to try out fibre-based in the future, but I think the RC workflow works best for me right now.

Thanks much,
Dan

Firstly, Ilfospeed in anything other than G2 & G3 has been discontinued as a stock item for a LONG time - closing in on a decade at least https://web.archive.org/web/2007111...oducts/product.asp?n=18&t=Photographic+Papers - that link is archived from 2007.

Fomaspeed 'C' or 'hard' grade might be worth investigating - the data sheet suggests it corresponds in ISO (R) terms. Fotoimpex can supply it worldwide. I've used the FB version & like it a lot.

Furthermore, what safelight are you using? Poor choices of safelights can lead to contrast issues with MG papers.

My own experience is that used appropriately, MGIV RC is an excellent paper, as are the other Ilford RC papers. You might want to also consider the Adox MCP paper.

 

[brian steinberger]

For RC papers you can't beat Ilford in my opinion. I use their MGIV and warmtone in pearl finish. I must say, the warmtone is an especially beautiful paper! It tones very nicely.

 

[dhkirby]

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of...

MGIV's just not giving me the results I'm looking for. For what it's worth I'm using a Kodak OA filter on my safelight, which I think should be good for VC papers based on the research I'm doing, but isn't specifically condoned by Ilford (of course they recommend their own filters).

The research I'm doing is reading through a lot of datasheets of different papers. Based on these, the one that seems most similar in theory to Kenthene is Kentmere VC select based on paper structure, spectral sensitivity and ISO ratings across different gradings. So I picked up a box today and I'm like a kid before Christmas waiting to be able to check it out

I'm also going to try out Ilfospeed. Because I saw some prints on it yesterday and they looked stunning.

 

[Lachlan Young]

MGIV's just not giving me the results I'm looking for. For what it's worth I'm using a Kodak OA filter on my safelight, which I think should be good for VC papers based on the research I'm doing, but isn't specifically condoned by Ilford (of course they recommend their own filters).

The research I'm doing is reading through a lot of datasheets of different papers. Based on these, the one that seems most similar in theory to Kenthene is Kentmere VC select based on paper structure, spectral sensitivity and ISO ratings across different gradings. So I picked up a box today and I'm like a kid before Christmas waiting to be able to check it out

First thing you should do is replace your safelight with at least a OC, preferably a 1A or Ilford 902 - that is probably the cause of your problems with MGIV. The OA is really only meant for slow contact speed papers & certain graphic arts materials according to Kodak. If you're going to try Kentmere VC, you will really need to replace the safelight filter - in ISO (P) terms, Kentmere is 2/3 stop faster than Ilford MGIV & will fog much faster under inappropriate safelights.

 

[R.Gould]

Kentmere VC Select is a fine paper, I think better than MG4, it is a cold tone, very close to Kenthene in tone, I have used both and I think that VC select,is very close in tone to kenthene, sad that when Harman took over Kentmere paper they dropped all but VC Select

 

[Lachlan Young]

sad that when Harman took over Kentmere paper they dropped all but VC Select

Except they didn't. They carried on making the Bromide and a number of other lines - the MG Cooltone FB was clearly intended to replace them, if you look at the speed & contrast matches between it and some of the Kentmere products. I recall that the Cooltone is made on the same plant as the Delta films (Rapid Mixing?) at a vastly higher level of efficiency & as an Ilford product can command a higher price.

There's a podcast somewhere that visits the Mobberley factory where one of the senior emulsion engineers is asked about the Kentmere story & says that Harman had hoped to spend several months learning Kentmere's processes, but instead the dangerous nature of some of the plant (lack of proper safety guards, open reactor vessels) meant they had to shut it down almost immediately. The emulsions that could transfer easily to the Mobberley plant did so, but the trickier ones/ ones that would need massive R&D relative to sales (Kentona & POP) died.

 

[darkroommike]

First thing you should do is replace your safelight with at least a OC, preferably a 1A or Ilford 902 - that is probably the cause of your problems with MGIV. The OA is really only meant for slow contact speed papers & certain graphic arts materials according to Kodak. If you're going to try Kentmere VC, you will really need to replace the safelight filter - in ISO (P) terms, Kentmere is 2/3 stop faster than Ilford MGIV & will fog much faster under inappropriate safelights.

The newer Ilford SL-1 would be good, too. What you may be experiencing is veiled highlights from fog.

 

[R.Gould]

Except they didn't. They carried on making the Bromide and a number of other lines - the MG Cooltone FB was clearly intended to replace them, if you look at the speed & contrast matches between it and some of the Kentmere products. I recall that the Cooltone is made on the same plant as the Delta films (Rapid Mixing?) at a vastly higher level of efficiency & as an Ilford product can command a higher price.

There's a podcast somewhere that visits the Mobberley factory where one of the senior emulsion engineers is asked about the Kentmere story & says that Harman had hoped to spend several months learning Kentmere's processes, but instead the dangerous nature of some of the plant (lack of proper safety guards, open reactor vessels) meant they had to shut it down almost immediately. The emulsions that could transfer easily to the Mobberley plant did so, but the trickier ones/ ones that would need massive R&D relative to sales (Kentona & POP) died.

Perhaps I should have said they very soon stopped most of Kentmere's range, they made several for a few months at Mobberly, such as the Fineprint range, the art range was already gone due to problems with the paper base, but others transerfered to mobberly, I bought and used some of them such as the Fineprint papers, but when they started to show signs of outselling their mainstay MG papers the dissapeared,a lot of customers still believe that they bought Kentmere papers to reduce the competion, and I and others that used the Kentmere papers still believe that the Kentmere range were far better papers than the Ulford range, but use complaining whats gone is gone, and the new Ilford Classic paper is a match for the Fineprint paper, almost as if it is a development of Kentmeres paper, I use it for some of my printing, along with their Art 300 and Adox's MCC paper,