KEH kit: RB67 or RZ67?

moouers · Dec 21, 2009

Christopher Walrath said:
So, how do you like my kit? He got it form me for a B&J 4x5 Press Camera. Both backs work fine. Just the one looks really rough. I think there's a roll with an exposure on it. Don't worry about it.

All righty, got the camera and ran about 4 rolls through it so far...I'll be able to tell more in 3 days when my developer comes in the mail. Hopefully all is well and there aren't any light leaks!

Positioning the camera is definately taking some time to get used to...I'm so used to 35mm camera viewfinders moving the image in the direction I move the camera.

I'm just glad my tripod can carry this beast of a camera with no problem. I was fearing having to upgrade the head, but my Manfrotto 055XPROB legs with 804RC2 head work perfectly well with no sag what-so-ever.

Gearoidmuar · Dec 22, 2009

I hardly ever use it but have an RB system with 50, 90, 127, 150 and 250 lenses.
The 127 (non-multicoated) is really superb. It doesn't need to be any better. All of the other lenses are really good too.
Must start using it.

Steve Smith · Dec 22, 2009

xtolsniffer said:
Steve, you can't possibly have everything you want with the RB! I have the 50mm, 65mm, 90mm, 140mm macro and a 250mm KL, a Pro S and Pro SD and four backs, a multi-angle grip and I still find myself on that damn auction site...

O.K. I have everything I need!

Steve.

Steve Smith · Dec 22, 2009

2F/2F said:
You certainly get very slick modern optics in all cases with the RZ, and you can always use the older, lower-tech early RB glass (the character of which I love for portraits and all sorts of other things) on an RZ, but can't go the other way around.

If an RB lens fits on an RZ (which it does) then in theory, with a bit of machining, it should be possible to put an RZ lens on an RB.

Wait.... I've got it.... The RZ lens needs to be powered from the body for the shutter to work.

Steve.

Rudeofus · Dec 22, 2009

Steve Smith said:
If an RB lens fits on an RZ (which it does) then in theory, with a bit of machining, it should be possible to put an RZ lens on an RB.

The biggest obstacle is that in the RB system you set the shutter speed on the lens while in the RZ system the shutter speed dial is on the camera. Even if you somehow manage to fit an RZ lens onto an RB camera, you'd be limited to the default shutter speed, which is 1/400s. That's why it is easy to fit an RB lens onto an RZ camera but not the other way round.

Pumal · Dec 22, 2009

Stick with the totally mechanical RB The 'C' lenses are great. I've been very happy with my revolving Backs. The 2 are heavy. Need a Tripod

thefizz · Dec 22, 2009

I own an RZ but my first medium format experience was with an RB. Both are great with just a few differences between them as already described above.

What I don't like about my three RZ lenses is that when taking a timed exposure (T mode), only one cable release can be fitted. You start the exposure with the cable release but end it by moving a small switch on the lens. This movement of the lens may be a problem depending on how long the exposure is. The great thing about the RB lenses is that they take two cable releases, one to start and one to finish the timed exposure.

Steve Smith · Dec 22, 2009

thefizz said:
The great thing about the RB lenses is that they take two cable releases, one to start and one to finish the timed exposure.

Really? I will have to look at mine then.

I thought they worked the same way as you described for your RZ lenses. As far as I was aware, the double cable release thing was for the mirror lockup.

Not really required though as you can use the ordinary shutter button to raise the mirror then use the cable release on the lens to fire the shutter.

thefizz said:
This movement of the lens may be a problem depending on how long the exposure is.

It's best to cover the lens with a lens cap or a hat or something similar before closing the shutter. It is annoying that it doesn't have a 'normal' B or T function though.

Steve.

thefizz · Dec 22, 2009

I'm not sure if all RB lenses take two cable releases but the three I used in college did. Covering the lens with a cloth is a solution I guess to not having the second cable release.

Steve Smith · Dec 22, 2009

I have just done a search on this subject and I think this is relevant to KL lenses only. One of mine is KL but I haven't noticed the second cable release point yet.

I'm going to have look when I get home!

Steve.

removed-user-1 · Dec 22, 2009

thefizz said:
The great thing about the RB lenses is that they take two cable releases, one to start and one to finish the timed exposure.

thefizz said:
I'm not sure if all RB lenses take two cable releases but the three I used in college did. Covering the lens with a cloth is a solution I guess to not having the second cable release.

I use two cable releases in mirror lockup on my RB... I'm looking at my 65mm and 127mm RB lenses right now, and I see exactly one cable release socket on each lens, for mirror lockup operation. This is the second release, the first is on the body and simply puts the mirror up before the start of the exposure, which is tripped by the second release on the lens after a couple seconds waiting for the mirror vibrations to die down. If other RB lenses work differently I am not aware of it. Do you recall what lenses you used?

Joe Grodis · Dec 22, 2009

Just one more thing to think about... Mamiya now makes four new digital backs ranging from 22 MP to 56 MP. These back can be used on the RB-67 with an available adapter. See--> http://www.mamiya.com/dm-series-digital-backs.html

2F/2F · Dec 22, 2009

Joe Grodis said:
Just one more thing to think about... Mamiya now makes four new digital backs ranging from 22 MP to 56 MP. These back can be used on the RB-67 with an available adapter. See--> http://www.mamiya.com/dm-series-digital-backs.html

It amazes me how such technically lame digital technology has managed to replace film so quickly, and amazes me even more how it has done so even in non-professional arenas, where none of the advantages of digital are even extremely advantageous.

I will be interested when there is a "full-frame" D) 6x7 digital back that provides a significantly larger file than what can be had from a small format digital SLR. Let us say, the same amount larger file over small format DSLR that 6x7 film has over 35mm film. Until then, forget it. There is no point for me. If I am not getting a file that is significantly larger, I would rather shoot with a high-end small format DSLR and enjoy all of its benefits over an RZ (cost and lens selection and speed being the most important).

8.64 sq-mm is the area of a full-frame small format DSLR sensor of about 22 megapixels. 42 sq-mm is the size of the theoretical full-frame 6x7 sensor. 4.86x larger than the small format DSLR at 22 megapixels. So, when they have a 106 megapixel full frame back for the RZ, and I am a professional photographer who could make money with such a gadget, I will be interested. Until then, I will shoot film through it.

Then...shall we even bother to go into dynamic range? 12 stops is absolutely pitiful at those prices. I would want 15 at the very least, as that is about the extreme of what I deal with on a regular basis using film.

thefizz · Dec 22, 2009

rthomas said:
I use two cable releases in mirror lockup on my RB... I'm looking at my 65mm and 127mm RB lenses right now, and I see exactly one cable release socket on each lens, for mirror lockup operation. This is the second release, the first is on the body and simply puts the mirror up before the start of the exposure, which is tripped by the second release on the lens after a couple seconds waiting for the mirror vibrations to die down. If other RB lenses work differently I am not aware of it. Do you recall what lenses you used?

I don't know which lenses they were. I guess some models cater for two cable releases and others only one.

panastasia · Dec 22, 2009

When using KL lenses on the RB ProSD for a time exposure more than 1 sec. & MLU you'll need to use a cable release attached to B w/lens set on T and a cable release attached to M.UP. The exposure is made by pressing the release button on the camera body to move the mirror up, then M.UP to open the shutter and B to close it. This requires the double cable release, or two separate cable releases. It's easier to do than it is to explain. The alternative method is to set the lens on T and manually hold the shutter open with a single cable release attached to B. I think, because I never used the alternative method - I always use MLU and two cables. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: I just tried the alternative method and pressing the release button on the body (w/o MLU) opens the shutter and pressing the cable release attached to B closes the shutter - no need to manually hold the shutter open with the cable release. So, you still need 2 cable releases (one attached to the camera body button).

k_jupiter · Dec 22, 2009

thefizz said:
I don't know which lenses they were. I guess some models cater for two cable releases and others only one.

Sorry Fizz,

I have the 50,65,90,127,150SF and 180. None have two cable releases. The lens has one, the body has one. The body is hit first so you eliminate mirror shake, then you release the lens shutter.

I don't have a 37 nor a 140, nor a 250 so I cannot be 100% sure but I think you mis-remember.

tim in san jose

johnnywalker · Dec 22, 2009

My 127 KL lens has two cable release sockets: one for the shutter for the mirror-up operation (the mirror goes up on depressing the release button on the body, as noted above), and one for time exposures. In the latter case the shutter is open and closed by pressing the plunger on the cable release.

panastasia · Dec 22, 2009

All KL lenses have two cable release sockets (M.UP & B) so time exposures (T) can be completed (close shutter) w/o touching the camera directly. Good idea! A definite design improvement. The shutter release button on the camera body only locks the mirror up when a cable is attached to the M.UP socket.

k_jupiter · Dec 23, 2009

panastasia said:
All KL lenses have two cable release sockets (M.UP & B) so time exposures (T) can be completed (close shutter) w/o touching the camera directly. Good idea! A definite design improvement. The shutter release button on the camera body only locks the mirror up when a cable is attached to the M.UP socket.

Inneresting. The ProS will take pictures all day in MU mode, even if you don't remember it is in that mode. Of course the pictures will be very underexposed.

Well, you learn sumthin new every day.

tim in san jose

polyglot · Dec 23, 2009

I was recently saved by my spare RZ battery (as yet unneeded by the RZ): it resuscitated my security gate remote and allowed me to get home!

Pumal · Dec 23, 2009

k_jupiter said:
Inneresting. The ProS will take pictures all day in MU mode, even if you don't remember it is in that mode. Of course the pictures will be very underexposed.

Well, you learn sumthin new every day.

tim in san jose

I have no trouble with my Pro S. I ALWAYS know when the mirror is up.

k_jupiter · Dec 23, 2009

Pumalite said:
I have no trouble with my Pro S. I ALWAYS know when the mirror is up.

The problem is that when you reset the mirror by cocking the shutter, the mirror operates correctly for the next shot but the lens shutter does not. You need to move the selector on the shutter back to normal.

tim

Pumal · Dec 23, 2009

That's what EVERYBODY should do if they know what they are doing.

moouers · Dec 23, 2009

k_jupiter said:
The problem is that when you reset the mirror by cocking the shutter, the mirror operates correctly for the next shot but the lens shutter does not. You need to move the selector on the shutter back to normal.

tim

I just re-read the manual and see what you mean. I *think* I've only used the camera on a tripod with mirror up and a cable release...let's sure hope so. I don't want to develop four rolls of nothingness. What a depressing day that would be. Thank you for bringing this camera quirk to my attention - you have potentially saved me from future stress.

moouers · Dec 23, 2009

Pumalite said:
That's what EVERYBODY should do if they know what they are doing.

Yes, true, but people like me who just got the camera don't necessarily remember all the quirks at first

KEH kit: RB67 or RZ67?

removed-user-1

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