KEH has a new website!

RattyMouse · Oct 11, 2014

pdeeh said:
Although never likely to buy from KEH, I did browse the site (both new and old versions) a few times and have to agree the new one is exactly as Matt has typ(o)ed

Truzi · Oct 11, 2014

I rarely use ebay anymore (read, the last two years) for the same reasons.

I had purchased from both Adorama and B&H before, but had never considered them for the sort of things KEH offered. This has since changed, and I've found they are quite useful. Craigslist is something I've now finally tried. There seem to be a fair number of independent camera stores with websites. Thrift/"antique" stores have the advantage of being able to view the items in-person. Amazon has also become a useful alternative.

If you are good with Google, you can find many ebay sellers have their own sites (the same is true of Amazon). I am very good with Google, so the fact that any business' search wastes my time is quite a statement.

While I was never dissatisfied with KEH's sales, I did notice their idea of "brassing" on an EX graded back was very generous compared to items described as "rough" by some ebay sellers. In other words, the "EX" from KEH was aesthetically worse than "rough" on ebay. (They both function perfectly, though, so I didn't care beyond being annoyed that a reputable store differs so greatly from random ebay sellers.)

lxdude · Oct 11, 2014

Truzi said:
While I was never dissatisfied with KEH's sales, I did notice their idea of "brassing" on an EX graded back was very generous compared to items described as "rough" by some ebay sellers. In other words, the "EX" from KEH was aesthetically worse than "rough" on ebay. (They both function perfectly, though, so I didn't care beyond being annoyed that a reputable store differs so greatly from random ebay sellers.)

I would say that it was mis-labeled. I sounds like BGN, maybe even UG. To be EX, it should have been nice.
That happened to me twice with lenses. I showed one to the KEH buyers who were in the area at a camera show, and they agreed, so I sent it back for another. The other, I called and talked to someone, and got a credit for the quality rating difference.
Something can be rough looking but perfectly functional, and fall into the BGN category. I have a flash from them like that. The relative prices within a category give a clue as to condition, and the flash was cheap. But EX should not look rough. As lots of folks have said, even their BGN is usually ebay's "Minty".

Trail Images · Oct 11, 2014

But EX should not look rough. As lots of folks have said, even their BGN is usually ebay's "Minty".

I agree with this on most all the dealings I've had either through eBay or KEH. I will say if there ever was an issue at KEH I never had them balk at trying to right things. One item was a lens that had a bit of fungus and was missed after sitting on a shelf in storage for a period of time. They exchanged it for an upgraded unit without hesitation. The second was a lens that after a short period of time had a sluggish shutter. They CLA'd the unit and it is being used a lot as of late.

StoneNYC · Oct 12, 2014

Roger Cole said:
Respectfully Stone, I think you must be smoking crack.

(I am joking of course, but the old one was much, much easier to use. Hell, I even liked the look of it better but I think the looks of computer interfaces in general have been going downhill since Win2k.)

Haha!

No crack here.

But I like greatly that I can see a picture now.

I think it's a sign that they are TRYING to improve instead of the status quo, and that this will keep them pushing to improve and ultimately the site will get even better.

Roger Cole · Oct 12, 2014

lxdude said:
I would say that it was mis-labeled. I sounds like BGN, maybe even UG. To be EX, it should have been nice.
That happened to me twice with lenses. I showed one to the KEH buyers who were in the area at a camera show, and they agreed, so I sent it back for another. The other, I called and talked to someone, and got a credit for the quality rating difference.
Something can be rough looking but perfectly functional, and fall into the BGN category. I have a flash from them like that. The relative prices within a category give a clue as to condition, and the flash was cheap. But EX should not look rough. As lots of folks have said, even their BGN is usually ebay's "Minty".

I would agree with that. I've bought a couple of things from KEH that were graded BGN and they were in really good shape - I wouldn't have personally called those "minty" but I would have called them "very good." The Excellent stuff (like both my Pentax LX and MX) has been truly excellent and most people would have called it like new.

John_Nikon_F · Oct 13, 2014

Roger Cole said:
I would agree with that. I've bought a couple of things from KEH that were graded BGN and they were in really good shape - I wouldn't have personally called those "minty" but I would have called them "very good." The Excellent stuff (like both my Pentax LX and MX) has been truly excellent and most people would have called it like new.

Same. I've even bought some UG grade items from them that looked quite BGN grade to me. One was a 50/1.4 Nikkor-S with AI conversion ring. It showed some wear, but, not a severe amount. Another was a Nikon F2 body that had some minor brassing and was missing the black insert on the DOF preview button. Looked pretty clean otherwise.

Stone: Re: the pictures, they had them on the old site, just not for every single item. Alas, both the old and new sites don't have pics of the actual item you're buying. Only way you can see what you're buying through KEH is if it's being offered on their eBay account.

Here's the link to their eBay account's listings: http://www.ebay.com/sch/kehoutlet/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=200&rt=nc

-J

cmacd123 · Oct 14, 2014

Had a quick look, and it does seem to be able to find listings by the sort of catagories That I would think to look for items.

I did on one search get two items at a different price, both listed as BGN. Which would you buy?

My big feeling of lack in this is that there is no idea of what is wrong with a given item. They define BGN as being in rough shape including possibly having scratched glass or fungus.... either of those would drop a camera into "non-functional to me. One camera came up "as is" for parts only, but again no idea of what is wrong with it, I have a dead one of that model with the only fault being a broken LCD control panel. (Canon rebel G) and a 5 dollar camera with that part intact would be a good deal, but paying 40 dollars (35 shipping) and then perhaps finding that the LCD is the problem with the As Is camera is too risky for my blood.

Wayne · Oct 15, 2014

BGN does not have functional issues, they are purely cosmetic. If you find otherwise they'll take it back, repair or exchange it

ozphoto · Oct 15, 2014

I did receive a response form Customer Service on Monday in response to my email regarding their "Search Box" facility at the top of their page.

"Good afternoon Ozphoto,

I apologize the search feature is not garnering the results you need. I found that your search for Mamiya RB67 backs worked best. I was able to use the ‘filters’ on the left-hand side of the screen to select backs and from there it did net the correct results.

I have forwarded your feedback to our web team.

Thank you for taking the time to let us know. We are continuing to make improvements to the new site.

Please let us know if we can be of assistance.

Sincerely,
Jan"

My initial email via their feedback form:

"Hi. I've been looking at your new site, and have found some glitches with the search engine you're using. Namely, when you use the search bar (quickest way to find gear!), it doesn't list all the items you have for the particular search, or it lists a truckload of gear that isn't even related to the search. Please compare the following results - I did a search for Mamiya RB67 and "Maymiya RB67 Backs" in the search bar. The results are not ideal - the first results page, completely leaves out the RB Backs you have in stock, the second lists a truckload of gear not even related to a Mamiya RB67. Perhaps your web designer can take a look - trawling through unrelated gear is *not* an ideal experience - I like to see what I'm searching for quickly, without the need to scroll through totally unrelated gear.Dead Link Removed Dead Link RemovedCheers, Ozphoto"

Guess we'll have to wait and see how their web team deals with it.

lxdude · Oct 15, 2014

cmacd123 said:
Had a quick look, and it does seem to be able to find listings by the sort of catagories That I would think to look for items.

I did on one search get two items at a different price, both listed as BGN. Which would you buy?

My big feeling of lack in this is that there is no idea of what is wrong with a given item. They define BGN as being in rough shape including possibly having scratched glass or fungus.... either of those would drop a camera into "non-functional to me. One camera came up "as is" for parts only, but again no idea of what is wrong with it, I have a dead one of that model with the only fault being a broken LCD control panel. (Canon rebel G) and a 5 dollar camera with that part intact would be a good deal, but paying 40 dollars (35 shipping) and then perhaps finding that the LCD is the problem with the As Is camera is too risky for my blood.

Often there is a short note stating the issue. For example, you might see a Nikon F4s in say, BGN condition, that is cheaper than others, and the note will say LCD bleed. With lenses, "filter ring damage" is a common note.

Hatchetman · Oct 15, 2014

If there is something wrong with the glass they will say "Glass Ugly"

summicron1 · Oct 15, 2014

eng1er said:
Hmm. May it will grow on me, but I liked the old site better.

me too. This one doesn't categorize the accessories as well as the old one did. At least, I have a hard time finding lenses I want, and so on.

ntenny · Oct 15, 2014

MattKing said:
The shop by mount feature makes a big difference if you are looking for bodies or lenses.

But it doesn't come into play if you are looking for accessories - and it is accessories that interest me the most.

I guess I am being punished for using cameras from a manufacturer (Mamiya) that has a variety of products that serve a lot of format and functional needs.

I don't understand why they don't seem to categorize accessories by "mount". And perhaps I'm missing something, but there doesn't seem to be any category for accessories in the "collectibles" category at all; where should I be looking for, say, Exakta parts, or the "miscellaneous medium format" grab bag that they used to have?

In its current state, I see the site as usable if (1) you know exactly what you're looking for and can get the search function to work, or (2) you want to browse through the obvious categories like bodies and lenses of reasonably-well-known brands. It no longer seems to lend itself to "let's see what random bits and pieces they happen to have today", which I used to use it for all the time.

-NT

cmacd123 · Oct 15, 2014

I will second that Mamiya is a real problem in any oneline search, even RB67 seemed to go through a few different mounts, some of which are interchangeable.

analoguey · Oct 15, 2014

Someone, probably a consultant or web-designer saw 'oh this is web 1.0 design, we need to UPGRADE it' and proceeded to do just that.
Website design is 21st century alright, functionality now is more 19th century -especially in finding things you want.
the one update is that images are there and condition is better described.

sigh.
same old bit of not understanding how yourcustomer uses the product.

Sent from Tap-a-talk

Truzi · Oct 15, 2014

As I said before, rather than continually waste time on those searches, I used that time to find other sources without these problems.
I'd rather find and deal with someone who values my time rather than someone who takes it for granted that I'll continue to waste my time. I'm not in high school anymore.

lxdude · Oct 15, 2014

One thing about the new KEH website... at least the people who designed healthcare.gov were able to find someone who would hire them.

RattyMouse · Oct 15, 2014

KEH must be suffering a drop in sales. The amount of stuff that simply can't be found anymore is pretty amazing.

StoneNYC · Oct 16, 2014

RattyMouse said:
KEH must be suffering a drop in sales. The amount of stuff that simply can't be found anymore is pretty amazing.

Maybe the website is so successful they are selling out of stock

I've seen a TON of KEH buying events, in places I've never seen before. They must be doing ok.

RattyMouse · Oct 16, 2014

StoneNYC said:
Maybe the website is so successful they are selling out of stock

I've seen a TON of KEH buying events, in places I've never seen before. They must be doing ok.

I doubt KEH is doing well at all. The amount of hate I have seen at their new web site is profound. Here, FM, and several other forums all have threads going on how terrible the new site is.

I've given up looking there. It's just too painful.

mgb74 · Oct 16, 2014

Frankly, I think this whole thing is overblown. Maybe the new site is step backward, but it's not terrible. You can find things - even I can find things. If KEH was useful to you before; it still is.

KEH has a new website!

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