KEH bargains...

Sully75 · Apr 17, 2010

Hello,

So I may buy a camera from KEH (Mamiya C330). I notice there are a wide variety of prices on the bargain cameras. Does that indicate that they are in different condition? I notice, for instance, two 330f with 80mm 2.8 lenses, one for $308 and one for $338. Contrary to what I've heard mentioned here before, the guy I talked to there wasn't that helpful in the grading or interested in talking about any particular camera.

Any thoughts?

Thanks
Paul

Dave_ON · Apr 17, 2010

Hi Paul,

I've dealt with KEH on many occasions both buying and selling. Their condition ratings have always been very accurate in my experience. If anything the ratings are conservative. I've purchased items from them rated as "EX" that I thought were "LN" when I inspected them. I suspect the only diffference between the $338.00 unit and the $308.00 one, are a couple minor scuff marks or scratches on the body or lens barrel. He probably couldn't answer your questions because their large volume of equipment isn't readily available for them to inspect for you and tell you the differences. I'd go with the cheaper once because with that price difference there's likely no difference in functionality or glass quality.

Speaking of which: They deal in so much analogue equipment, why aren't they a sponsor on here?

Dave

lxdude · Apr 17, 2010

Dave_ON said:
Hi Paul,

I've dealt with KEH on many occasions both buying and selling. Their condition ratings have always been very accurate in my experience. If anything the ratings are conservative. I've purchased item from them rated as "EX" that I thought were "LN" when I inspected them. I suspect the only diffference between the $338.00 unit and the $308.00 one are a couple minor scuff marks or scratches on the body or lens barrel. He probably couldn't answer your question because their large volume of equipment isn't readily available to them to inspect for you and tell you the differences. I'd go with the cheaper once because with that prices difference there's likely no difference in functionality or glass quality.

Speaking of which: They deal in so much analogue equipment, why aren't they a sponsor on here?

Dave

Or an advertiser anyway.

I have found that price does relate to condition between items with the same rating. Usually BGN are great cosmetically to most anyone, but sometimes a low BGN is very much true to grade. The grade is really cosmetic, though cosmetics are a good clue to usage.

Jeff Kubach · Apr 17, 2010

I have found that BGN is really good.

Jeff

PhotoJim · Apr 17, 2010

Every piece of BGN gear I've bought has had a fault... but the faults are almost always very minor. Examples:

- 105/2.5 AI has slightly tight focusing.
- Nikon F3HP has a minor ding in the prism.
- Nikon FE has a multiple-exposure lever that won't return automatically once engaged.

Jim

lxdude · Apr 17, 2010

I have received a lens and a flash that definitely fit the BGN category. No complaints; they're simply true to grade as defined by KEH. The lens had cosmetic wear and the flash had several deep scratches on the body. Both work perfectly.
I've also had to look for what caused something to be rated BGN, too. For example I bought a low BGN lens from them that had a tiny ding and shiny spot on the outside front of the filter ring, and another couple on the aperture ring. They're big enough to be noticeable if you're looking for an imperfection. Not enough to indicate an impact, no real distortion of the metal, just a little ding.

I'd rather buy them that way than pay for the privilege of putting the imperfections there myself, which is inevitable.

Sparky · Apr 17, 2010

Dave_ON said:
Hi Paul,

I've dealt with KEH on many occasions both buying and selling. Their condition ratings have always been very accurate in my experience.

I've bought from them a FEW times... I didn't find their ratings accurate in the LEAST - I thought they were pretty off-base. But I DID find them extremely conservative - which is always good. You always get something BETTER than you expect.

DLawson · Apr 17, 2010

I've only bought from KEH once so far. I forget what they listed the lens as. I'm sure it wasn't bargain, but something less than excellent. I'm lot a lens expert, but I can't find what had them list it as any less than Like New.

One bit of guidance: I ordered a bit after the new year (early February?) and they were still getting burned by the new on-line ordering system. If it gives you any trouble, just call in. The woman who took my order was very good and found the item I wanted very quickly.

DWThomas · Apr 17, 2010

I've noticed there is sometimes a small price difference that appears to be related to caps or covers or similar items being included with the item or not.

Vonder · Apr 17, 2010

An important note: KEH grades on appearance ONLY. Be wary of any electronic-reliant cameras. I've had a few from them that were junk - and yes, you do pay return shipping and returns take weeks.

TheFlyingCamera · Apr 17, 2010

I just recently bought a roll-film back for my Mamiya RB-67, listed as Bargain. To be entirely honest, I could NOT tell what makes it not LN- aside from the fact that it doesn't have the box or owners manual.

ulysses · Apr 18, 2010

20 years ago I lived in Atlanta. At that time, KEH had a retail store where you could go and browse the equipment, sometimes finding things that weren't in the catalog. Needless to say, I bought a bunch of stuff from them and always found the condition matched the ratings and was sometimes better. It's been a while, but I just bought two items from them last week, little (but necessary) things that we photographers sometimes "need". In this case, one was rated "BGN" and was beat up but functional. The other was rated "EX" and was, but it wasn't what it said it was -- both what it was and what it was supposed to be had "MB" in the name but the similarity ended there. Oh, well. I put it on eBay...

Hikingman · Apr 18, 2010

In March, my 'bargain' KEH camera purchase was a very good experience, and I'm picky! In a word, Wow! ($79 + shipping).

gupa · Apr 18, 2010

ulysses,
That second from last sentence, could you say that again 3 times -real fast- I don't get it.

photomat- · Apr 18, 2010

I bought a Bronica 80mm PS lens that was dinged on the filter ring. I accepted it as it was BGN grade. It wasn't till after the return period had expired that I found out that they usually list that as FRD in the listing, which mine didn't have when I ordered. The Hasselblad 50mm that I ordered was in great shape other than a loose focusing ring that needed glueing back in place.

TimmyMac · Apr 18, 2010

I hope I'm not giving away my game here, but check As-Is stuff too. I scored an EOS 1N for $6.50 which was missing the battery grip - no problem, since I just bought an EOS 3 with the motor drive grip AND battery grip. 2 bodies for the price of one!

Also bought an RZ67 kit for about $130-140, including 110/2.8 lens, 2 backs, and RB metered prism. The prism meter needed 20 minutes with a screwdriver and soldering iron, one of the backs needed refoaming, and the lens is missing a cable socket. None of these are of much concern to me, and after a few rolls of film I'm in love with it.

ulysses · Apr 18, 2010

gupa said:
ulysses,
That second from last sentence, could you say that again 3 times -real fast- I don't get it.

Sure. I ordered an MB-4 to replace the AAA battery holder in my N2000 that had been leaked on. They sent me an MB-10, possibly worth more than the MB-4, but not at all what I needed. (Both what I needed and what I got had "MB" in the name...) Sorry for being unclear.

Ulysses

John Wiegerink · Apr 18, 2010

All this high talk of KEH? Why, you'd think they were a personal camera store from God or something! I have had a few dealings with them and my first(about 10 or12 yrs ago I think) was a Hasselblad SWC that was listed as BGN at a very cheap price. I order the camera and they shipped it out very fast. When I opened the box I about fell over! The thing looked almost new and worked just perfect. In fact I'm still using it and enjoying it. I used to do the mid-west camera show circuit so have seen the variation's in the rating system. KEH is ultra-conservative in their ratings and that's why pretty much everyone hear has high praise for them. What better advertising get you get and it's pretty much free. Too bad other stores and outfits don't follow these guidelines. Hats off to the boys(and girls) from Atlanta! JohnW

Three Owls · Apr 18, 2010

My Keh BGN purchases both had faults that kept them from being EX, but were great deals. A 4x5 lens had slow slow speeds and black flecks inside, wonderful value though. My Nikon FM looked EX or LN at first, then I found that it had minor signs of being dropped on the rewind knob, no functional problems and a super value. I think at Keh if its not absolutely EX that they list it BGN unless its ugly or as-is. My EX 4x5 lens from them looked almost new.

gupa · Apr 19, 2010

Ulysses
Ah, thank you. So still all in all a positive experience, I'm glad to hear that.

Sully75 · Apr 19, 2010

Thebes...how slow were the speeds...that seems like it would interfere with the functional part of the bgn description.

lxdude · Apr 19, 2010

They guarantee their stuff to work, except for noted defects or as-is sales. So an un-noted deficiency in operation would be cause to return within the 60-day guarantee period.

Hikingman · Apr 19, 2010

There's actually two types of return times at KEH. The 14 day for change of mind or remorse, and a two month return period for light leaks or other mechanical problems. You won't find anything like that from the typical seller on auction sites!

Sully75 · Apr 19, 2010

Hikingman said:
You won't find anything like that from the typical seller on auction sites!

Woah, understatement there. I'm hoping to have resolved a mess with an insane seller in the next 24 hours but I think I might be done with the ol' sickbay.

Three Owls · Apr 19, 2010

Sully75 said:
Thebes...how slow were the speeds...that seems like it would interfere with the functional part of the bgn description.

One sec was about one and a half... just long enough to be noticeably longer than it should. Seems the other slow speeds are similarly about a half stop long. I'm sure they'd have taken it back but I just figure it into the exposure, they were consistent and its been entirely usable from my point of view.

KEH bargains...

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