Keeping your cool.

jstraw · Apr 5, 2007

Ok, it's getting to be car-in-the-sun season and I'd like to know how other people cope with camera gear and film and elevated temperatures.

I like having my gear handy in my daily comings and goings. I could easily keep my film in something small that I can take inside with me if I'm going to be a while. I wonder about putting my whole kit into an insulated cooler and just changing out a fresh freezer pack each morning. That wouldn't make my gear cold (causing condensation issues) but it might buy me hours of not-hot.

How do you approach this?

Ian Leake · Apr 5, 2007

You could move to London - then you don't have to worry about the temperature, only the rain

copake_ham · Apr 5, 2007

The insulated cooler is the way I'd go - and I think it best to then keep it in the car trunk (i.e. "boot" to the Brits). I'm guessing that the trunk will stay relatively cooler than the passenger compartment because of the windows in the latter.

I'd be curious to learn if this surmise is correct.

jonw · Apr 5, 2007

I use the insulated coolers too....the ones which will collapse work great. I use them to carry my 4x5s, 5x7s, and 8x10s!
BUT, be careful and do not place any frozen chiller item, even in a baggies, to assist in the cooling process. I used them once during a road trip to the AZ/NM/NV and fortunately it only ruined one side of one of my filmholders. The frozen plastic cube thawed, creating condensation/moisture which ruined a filmholder. Jon

User Removed · Apr 5, 2007

Being one that lives in the Arizona desert where it gets over 110-115 degree's in the summer, I often wondered the same question.

I shoot 8x10 black and white film only, and will often have it left in my truck for weeks at a time while on the road photographing or just keeping it in there while at home.

Conclusion- I have NEVER had any problem with heat damaging my film from being left in the car for a long period of time.

My friend left a box of 8x10 film and a few boxes of AZO in the back window of his car for nearly TWO YEARS before taking it out. We both tested the film and paper and they were both fine.

I'm not saying heat does not hurt your film, but I'm just saying don't be so worried that you feel the need to carry your film on ice while your out working.

However, if your shooting color...that might be a different story.

Best,

Ryan McIntosh
www.RyanMcIntosh.net

Shawn Dougherty · Apr 5, 2007

I've had experiences similar to those Ryan mentioned, all with black and white materials. I think an insulated cooler WITHOUT ice would be more than adaquate. Best. Shawn

Alex Hawley · Apr 5, 2007

I've never had a problem with B&W film being locked inside a hot car for several hours in 100F+ heat. I do try to keep it out of direct sun as much as possible just to minimize the chances of the film base "curdling". As others have said though, I'm pretty sure color film is not near as heat tolerant as B&W is.

rosey · Apr 5, 2007

In my trunk year-round is a medium size Styrofoam cooler with lid. I kept my cameras and film there for a two-week jaunt to San Antonio last year and didn't suffer any problem whatsoever, even in 100-degree heat. I always use it to hold film and cameras, but use nothing to cool it. The foam alone does a fine job, and I have left gear in it for extended periods in the hottest weather.

jstraw · Apr 5, 2007

I'm as concerned about the effect of heat on lubricants, adhesives, plastics, etc., as I am the effects on film.

Let's imaging a two week jaunt to San Antonio in the summer...say the overnight lows never drop below 85 degrees. The inside of your cooler will never be below that temp.

A cooler by itself can only create a buffer. My car spends just about every night in a garage so my car isn't subject to the full extremes of overnight cold in the winter and it will generally cool off more overnight than it woud outside in summer.

So if I leave the garage with a trunk full of gear at say 75 degrees in the morning, it will heat up much faster with no cooler around it than with a cooler. But there's nothing to prevent it from getting just as hot with a cooler as without it, eventually. It may not be out in the sun long enough for that to occur. If one can protect the contents of the cooler from any condensation that might form on a freezer pack, then that will extend the time it would take for the heat buildup in the trunk to overcome the insulating effect of the cooler, perhaps by a significant ammount of time. One freezer pack in a cooler large enough to hold my bag isn't going to make the space cold. It need not be colose to anything that shouldn't get wet. If it's on the outside of the padded bag that's inside the cooler, I'd be surprised if condensation created a problem.

AZLF · Apr 5, 2007

Another issue you might consider when leaving gear in the car is the vibration. I wont leave any of my cameras in the car but I started to leave some light stands and a couple of tripods in the trunk because of frequent use at work. Twice now something has vibrated loose from the Bogen tripod and one of my light stands needed to have the upper tube latch tightened. When I used it this week it would no longer hold up the Bogen mono light at any extension. It held it just fine the two years I had it before carrying it around in the trunk.

jstraw · Apr 5, 2007

AZLF said:
Another issue you might consider when leaving gear in the car is the vibration. I wont leave any of my cameras in the car but I started to leave some light stands and a couple of tripods in the trunk because of frequent use at work. Twice now something has vibrated loose from the Bogen tripod and one of my light stands needed to have the upper tube latch tightened. When I used it this week it would no longer hold up the Bogen mono light at any extension. It held it just fine the two years I had it before carrying it around in the trunk.

Certainly worth consideration. Thanks.

patrickjames · Apr 5, 2007

I thought I was protecting film once by putting it in a bag in a cooler. Trouble is the bag leaked and ruined all of the film (8x10, ouch!) Now I just let it be.

Patrick

copake_ham · Apr 5, 2007

jstraw said:
I'm as concerned about the effect of heat on lubricants, adhesives, plastics, etc., as I am the effects on film.

Let's imaging a two week jaunt to San Antonio in the summer...say the overnight lows never drop below 85 degrees. The inside of your cooler will never be below that temp.

A cooler by itself can only create a buffer. My car spends just about every night in a garage so my car isn't subject to the full extremes of overnight cold in the winter and it will generally cool off more overnight than it woud outside in summer.

So if I leave the garage with a trunk full of gear at say 75 degrees in the morning, it will heat up much faster with no cooler around it than with a cooler. But there's nothing to prevent it from getting just as hot with a cooler as without it, eventually. It may not be out in the sun long enough for that to occur. If one can protect the contents of the cooler from any condensation that might form on a freezer pack, then that will extend the time it would take for the heat buildup in the trunk to overcome the insulating effect of the cooler, perhaps by a significant ammount of time. One freezer pack in a cooler large enough to hold my bag isn't going to make the space cold. It need not be colose to anything that shouldn't get wet. If it's on the outside of the padded bag that's inside the cooler, I'd be surprised if condensation created a problem.

Actually, when you think about it, your cooler could become an oven!

If the interior temperature of the cooler finally reaches the ambient exterior daytime temperature on a hot day the insulating capabilities will work in reverse!

The heat will now remain trapped in the "cooler" overnight even as the ambient external air temperature cools down. Thus keeping the film and gear exposed to higher temperatures than if they were not "protected" in the "cooler".

Futhermore, the next day, the "cooler", now already at an internal temperature greater than the exterior, will at best reach equilabrium with the ambient external heat when the latter rises. It will then further heat up as the day goes on.

And, if you are travelling during a period of ever-rising temperatures - such as from early to mid-summer or from more northerly latitudes to southern ones - the "cooler" will eventually have lost all efficacy. And even this brief exposition fails to take into account the, as yet unmeasured, but ever-increasing deleterious effect on film efficacy due to global warming.

In addition, as you open and close the "cooler" you may well introduce unwanted moisture in the form of humidity. This would be espescially a problem if travelling from drier areas to more humid ones. Once introduced to micro-environment of the "cooler" this humidity will become "trapped" and may result in a percipitate. Not being a chemist, I cannot but naively speculate of whether such percipitate might begin to "interact" with the polymers of the styrofoam "cooler" - perhaps as a result of the outgassing of various compounds from the now "doomed" photographic film?

Equally worrisome is that attemps at mitigating the "oven-temperature" issue by migrating the so-called "cooler" from your vehicle to your (presumably air conditioned) hostelry room could cause condensation and introduce a micro-environment conducive to the growth of fungus and mold.

As a photographer, I am certain you are well aware of the problems fungus and mold can have to lenses and other camera gear.

All in all, if I were you, I would indeed be extremely cautious in considering your Summertime photographic excursions!

[NOTE: The above is intended to be read with one's tongue entirely in cheek! ]

Early Riser · Apr 5, 2007

I treat my film and gear pretty much the same whether it's hot or cold outside. The film resides in an insulated cooler. It, and all my gear, comes back to the hotel room with me at night. I do not use ice or cold packs in the cooler as I do not want to increase the possiblility of condensation, or create an extreme change in temperature for the film. I have never had an issue taking the cooler from a hot car into a cool room. However if your gear has been out in the cold, leave them in their case, zipped shut and wait at least several hours before you open them up in a warm room.

My gear is in padded cases. The cases have an insulation value. It is not advisable to use black cases as they absorb a great deal of heat, although in the winter this is an advantage.

Monophoto · Apr 6, 2007

I'm fortunate to not live in a desert area (and while I grew up in Florida, I have learned to appreciate arctic living). But it can get warm in a car during the daytime in summer even here in upstate NY, and I've often worried about this problem.

While the air temperature in a car will rise significantly if it is parked in the sun with the windows fully closed, it takes a while longer for the temperature of items in the car to follow. And if those items are bundled together, it takes even longer. My experience is that the temperature rise will not be excessive if I leave it in the car for an hour or so (say while having lunch). Furthermore, I can prevent excessive rise by simply leaving the windows cracked a bit.

My car (a Subaru Forrester) has a sunroof with an inner sliding cover. Leaving the inner cover open creates a greenhouse-like effect, so I usually keep it closed in the summer. Also, I have a sliding cover over the luggage area in the back that helps keep that area cool as well as protected from prying eyes.

This subject came up for discussion at a couple of workshops, and the consensus has been that in non-desert areas, its not likely to be a problem.

However - - - a number of years ago I had the unfortunate experience of having a couple of bulk rolls of film that were apparently fogged by excessive heat. I had purchased the film from Beards and Hats, who had shipped it with UPS. No one was home, so the UPS deliver guy left the package by the back door of our house - in the sun on a blacktop driveway. I can't be certain that the heat exposure was the culprit, but both rolls of film had a higher-than-normal level of base fog, and heat is the one common element that I can identify.

naturephoto1 · Apr 6, 2007

If traveling, I use a large 100 quart Coleman Cooler as a shipping case and then use the cooler in the car to store film and photo equipment. It keeps the film and equipment cooler and out of site from unwanted eyes.

Rich

jstraw · Apr 6, 2007

copake_ham said:
Actually, when you think about it, your cooler could become an oven!

If the interior temperature of the cooler finally reaches the ambient exterior daytime temperature on a hot day the insulating capabilities will work in reverse!

The heat will now remain trapped in the "cooler" overnight even as the ambient external air temperature cools down. Thus keeping the film and gear exposed to higher temperatures than if they were not "protected" in the "cooler".

Futhermore, the next day, the "cooler", now already at an internal temperature greater than the exterior, will at best reach equilabrium with the ambient external heat when the latter rises. It will then further heat up as the day goes on.

And, if you are travelling during a period of ever-rising temperatures - such as from early to mid-summer or from more northerly latitudes to southern ones - the "cooler" will eventually have lost all efficacy. And even this brief exposition fails to take into account the, as yet unmeasured, but ever-increasing deleterious effect on film efficacy due to global warming.

In addition, as you open and close the "cooler" you may well introduce unwanted moisture in the form of humidity. This would be espescially a problem if travelling from drier areas to more humid ones. Once introduced to micro-environment of the "cooler" this humidity will become "trapped" and may result in a percipitate. Not being a chemist, I cannot but naively speculate of whether such percipitate might begin to "interact" with the polymers of the styrofoam "cooler" - perhaps as a result of the outgassing of various compounds from the now "doomed" photographic film?

Equally worrisome is that attemps at mitigating the "oven-temperature" issue by migrating the so-called "cooler" from your vehicle to your (presumably air conditioned) hostelry room could cause condensation and introduce a micro-environment conducive to the growth of fungus and mold.

As a photographer, I am certain you are well aware of the problems fungus and mold can have to lenses and other camera gear.

All in all, if I were you, I would indeed be extremely cautious in considering your Summertime photographic excursions!

[NOTE: The above is intended to be read with one's tongue entirely in cheek! ]

Even so, it's exactly right. The purpose of a cooling element like a towel-wrapped freezer pack is to drop the temp just enough to (depending on temp and duration) keep the interior temp from reaching ambient trunk temp.

I think such a cooling device could even be beneficial, in terms of condensation by drawing moisture to the towel and away from the gear, if the gear were coming from 70 degree A/C to a 95 degree environment.

jstraw · Apr 6, 2007

Early Riser said:
However if your gear has been out in the cold, leave them in their case, zipped shut and wait at least several hours before you open them up in a warm room.

I operate on the assumption that such a case is vapor permeable and that keeping it zipped won't really help me. No harm in it but it's not like letting a Pelican case reach ambient temp.

copake_ham · Apr 6, 2007

On a slightly more serious note; one might want to do a little research to see what Adams and Weston did to protect film in hot environments as they travelled around in the desert Southwest. Perhaps some kind of cooler? Or maybe they just left the car windows open?

Which brings up another point. As you are travelling; presumably you will have the car's A/C on (or at least the windows open). When parked to shoot - how much film and gear will actually remain in the car rather than somewhere else with you?

As to what's "left behind", try to park in a shaded area when possible and if security is not a major concern - consider leaving the windows "cracked".

Finally, I've seen these contraptions that fit into a partially open window and contain a fan to remove hot air from the passenger compartment. They are powered by a solar panel you place on the dashboard. Based on you level of concern; you might want to look into one of these gadgets.

Paul Howell · Apr 6, 2007

I have spent my life as a warm weather photographer, South East Asia, Southern Italy, and Africa, for the past 20 years in the Desert Southwest. I think that rain and high humid is more of a problem than a "dry heat". I keep my gear in a large cooler and most of film in a smaller cooler. During the summer I may leave my gear in my SUV for few days at a time when I am traveling, but I dont leave film, either B&W or color. My SUV will get to 180 degrees, maybe higher, I have had film fog so I dont take chances.

frotog · Apr 6, 2007

The coolest way to go is with an ac/dc cooler. Igloo makes a few different sizes. I got the largest for a long trip through the desert w/ $1000 worth of 5x7 color film. If you stay at motels you can cart the thing in and plug it into the wall. If you sleep in your car you're best off installing a deep-cycle battery to be recharged during the day when you roll.

Curt · Apr 7, 2007

I recently checked the shutter speeds on an Ilex in hot day time temperature and cooler evening temperature and the speeds varied, not unexpected. Which shutters are more consistent in temperature changes and what is the best way to keep them consistent? A cooler like Igloo? Then the shutter heats up in use and the speeds change again. Should you use a shutter checker before use or just use longer exposures where changes won't matter?

BrianShaw · Apr 7, 2007

Curt said:
I recently checked the shutter speeds on an Ilex in hot day time temperature and cooler evening temperature and the speeds varied, not unexpected.

Please share some additional information, Curt, about your experiment. How much did the speeds vary and what were the tempreatures at which you measured. I'm really curious if the shutter speed differences are enough to worry about compensating for.

Leonard Peterson · Apr 7, 2007

Does anyone really think the trucks that deliver film to the stores are airconditioned? I'm sure Kodak, Ilford, Calumet or B&H tells UPS to put that film in a cooler on it's trip to AZ. This has never been a problem with Black and White film and only color like VPL. Do you think Adams, Weston or Strand had coolers or problems? How about war photogs in the south Pacific?

copake_ham · Apr 7, 2007

Leonard Peterson said:
Does anyone really think the trucks that deliver film to the stores are airconditioned? I'm sure Kodak, Ilford, Calumet or B&H tells UPS to put that film in a cooler on it's trip to AZ. This has never been a problem with Black and White film and only color like VPL. Do you think Adams, Weston or Strand had coolers or problems? How about war photogs in the south Pacific?

I tried to point this out - but apparently while film remains as tough as ever - photographers using it have gotten "soft".

Keeping your cool.

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