Keeping the paper developer's temperature steady.

macgreg · Apr 1, 2015

I wonder how you manage to keep the developer(mainly) in the tray in a steady temperature.

I use Ilford's developer which works at 20c. In a warmer day, I put the tray on a cold icebag that I keep in the freezer.

But what if it drops below 20c ?

And also, how do you manage to get the developer in the desired temperature before you print, if you have the working solution in a bottle for example.

Ian Grant · Apr 1, 2015

I use a dish warmer, and mix tothe correct temperature adding warm water as needed. It's easy.

Ian

bvy · Apr 1, 2015

I've just not found black and white paper developer to be that sensitive to my range of room temperatures. What kind of problems are you having that you're trying to fix?

Rick A · Apr 1, 2015

My paper developer stays at room temp, right around 68-70 f. I use Ethol LPD replenished, it all gets stored in the same place, when needed, my bottle of distilled water is beside it on the shelf. The only time I see any difference in activity is if my room drops below 65 f, then is slows down.

darkosaric · Apr 1, 2015

I develop my papers to completion - around 3 min in developer, and I never noticed that temperature from 18C to 30C makes any difference in final look.

Slixtiesix · Apr 1, 2015

A littler warmer than 20°C does not make any difference I think. However, developer activity visibly drops when below around 18°C from my experience.
My attempts so far:
1. Pouring warm water into the developer. Very bad idea. Temperature will drop again soon and you´ll dilute the developer.
2. Putting the developer tray into a larger tray filled with warm water. Works reasonable well but still a lot of hassle.
3. Just heat your room to 20°C. Nice if your darkroom has a proper heating. Mine has not. At least not strong enough to heat the room from 10°C to 20°C.
4. Buy a traywarmer, e.g. made by Kaiser. I think this is the very best, but also most expensive option.

It is sensible to have a thermometer permanently left in the dev. tray so you can constantly check the temperature. Fixer should also be checked from time to time since it will work slower when cold.

To warm the developer before printing I simply put the bottle on the radiator or into a warm water bath.

RexWH · Apr 1, 2015

aquarium heater

Steve Goldstein · Apr 1, 2015

I use some kind of kennel heating pad (the brand escapes me, I'm not home at the moment) run off a variac, which lets me adjust the amount of heat according to just how cold the space is. It has a fairly long time constant, measured in tens of minutes, I check the in-tray thermometer periodically and make adjustments when it seems appropriate. I also have a big chart on the wall of developing time versus temperature so for small temp changes I just shorten or lengthen the time to get identical development from print to print.

Ghostman · Apr 1, 2015

I was wondering about this as my darkroom is in a cellar, which in winter can be 15 Celsius. I have a room heater than can bring it up to 20, but I have developed in very cold conditions without any negative impact on the print. My prints all look fine, to me anyway.

Is there someone out there who can offer some definitive information on print temperature?

paul_c5x4 · Apr 1, 2015

Slixtiesix said:
4. Buy a traywarmer, e.g. made by Kaiser. I think this is the very best, but also most expensive option.

Some people use pig blankets as an alternative - These apparently work quite well. I sometimes use an electric buffet food warmer, especially when I need to run at an elevated temperature for lith developing.

Gerald C Koch · Apr 1, 2015

darkosaric said:
I develop my papers to completion - around 3 min in developer, and I never noticed that temperature from 18C to 30C makes any difference in final look.

+1

Here in Florida my usual room temperature is 75 to 85+ F. If I tried to keep it at 70F then that would consume all my time and leave none for printing. Again I have never experienced any problems with higher temperatures. Paper development is different from film development. The secret lies in developing to completion.

When developing to completion you watch the print and NOT the clock. I find that people who watch the clock tend to under develop their prints and pull them before they have good blacks.

adelorenzo · Apr 1, 2015

I also don't bother with temperature control. I use 21-22 degree water and as I print the developer will drop down towards ambient temperature, which in my darkroom is normally 15-18 C. I also just wait until the developing seems complete.

macgreg · Apr 1, 2015

Steve Goldstein said:
I also have a big chart on the wall of developing time versus temperature so for small temp changes I just shorten or lengthen the time to get identical development from print to print.

This is interesting !! Anyway to find out how I can get a similar chart ?

Thank you all for the help guys !!

From what I understand I shouldn't be too worried after all, like film. And now that the temperature starts rising, it's easier to keep it low.

My main concern was in lower temperatures, but you have given me some pretty good ideas !!

Gerald C Koch · Apr 1, 2015

Ghostman said:
I was wondering about this as my darkroom is in a cellar, which in winter can be 15 Celsius. I have a room heater than can bring it up to 20, but I have developed in very cold conditions without any negative impact on the print. My prints all look fine, to me anyway.

Is there someone out there who can offer some definitive information on print temperature?

Hydroquinone becomes essentially inert as a developing agent around 55F. So at 15C you are cutting it pretty close.

bergytone · Apr 1, 2015

I do what steve goldstein said... use a heating pad under the trays set to low, and run off a variac to manually dial in the temperature. I can hold temperature within 1 degree all night long. If you dont have a variac, you might be able to rig up a light dimmer to do the same thing.

RalphLambrecht · Apr 1, 2015

macgreg said:
I wonder how you manage to keep the developer(mainly) in the tray in a steady temperature.

I use Ilford's developer which works at 20c. In a warmer day, I put the tray on a cold icebag that I keep in the freezer.

But what if it drops below 20c ?

And also, how do you manage to get the developer in the desired temperature before you print, if you have the working solution in a bottle for example.

'proportional development' works at a wide range of temperatures.

RalphLambrecht · Apr 1, 2015

macgreg said:
This is interesting !! Anyway to find out how I can get a similar chart ?

Thank you all for the help guys !!

From what I understand I shouldn't be too worried after all, like film. And now that the temperature starts rising, it's easier to keep it low.

My main concern was in lower temperatures, but you have given me some pretty good ideas !!

forget the charts look up proportional development and work with it at a wide range of temperatures

MattKing · Apr 1, 2015

RalphLambrecht said:
'proportional development' works at a wide range of temperatures.

Ralph:

By chance, do you mean to say "factorial development" ?

Arklatexian · Apr 2, 2015

Gerald C Koch said:
+1

Here in Florida my usual room temperature is 75 to 85+ F. If I tried to keep it at 70F then that would consume all my time and leave none for printing. Again I have never experienced any problems with higher temperatures. Paper development is different from film development. The secret lies in developing to completion.

When developing to completion you watch the print and NOT the clock. I find that people who watch the clock tend to under develop their prints and pull them before they have good blacks.

I have a small window AC unit in the darkroom continualy set at 20C. If I did not have that, I couldn't stay in tghe darkroom with the temperature over 100F outside. Now about developing prints to completion. Many years ago, I was taught (mostly by example) to process my prints until there was no change in the image. One of my hero printers, A. Aubry Bodine, suggested leaving the print in the developer an additional several minutes after that to bring out nuances in the image. This was all controlled by the exposure time under the enlarger. If the print went dark, you had overexposed it. Have things changed? For me, I think not......Regards!

darkosaric · Apr 2, 2015

One more thing about developing prints to completion: often beginners error is that they stop developing when they see blacks in the print. But midtones and highlights are still not 100% there as they should be. Develop to completion --> black will remain black, but also midtones and highlights will get extra details that you will not have if you stop developing before. Of course all this is valid if you have exposed the paper as you should .

Jesper · Apr 2, 2015

I just use room temperature and develop until completion. I've never noticed any problem with the slight shift in temperature (I have my darkroom in the basement)

Doremus Scudder · Apr 2, 2015

FWIW, there is a specific time/temperature for most papers where the paper reaches full development and the characteristic curve is at its final shape. Extending development beyond that slowly moves the entire curve toward more dense, effectively increasing paper speed (and dumping some shadow detail into black along the way). Yes, this will also bring out more detail in the mids and highlights. It is essentially the same as increasing exposure time by a very small amount. I often use this to fine tune a print when making small exposure adjustments would be inconvenient. It's surprising sometimes what a difference 15 seconds will make.

I, too, like longer development times, usually in the 2.5-4 minute range.

One note: with some older papers you could tweak the contrast a bit by extending development. I don't know of any modern papers that increase in contrast with extended development like that now.

Best,

Doremus

Ian Grant · Apr 3, 2015

Time and temperature are particularly critical with warm tone papers where developing for too long kills the warmth, and at too low a temperature affects the tonal range. So for consistency that's why I always use a dish warmer.

Ian

miha · Apr 4, 2015

I use a dish warmer as well since I moved my darkroom from a spare bedroom to the cellar.

Bob Carnie · Apr 4, 2015

I have chosen to combine temp control and humidity control to the entire workroom ... so the darkroom is always 70 degrees with a relative humidity about 43%.

I mix my trays using water at 70 degrees and allow a bit of time for the trays to equalize to ambient room temp and never worry..

tried the pig warmers around 12years ago..did not work...

Keeping the paper developer's temperature steady.

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