Keeping It Affordable

Ray Heath · Dec 22, 2007

copake_ham said:
Seems kind on ridiculous to respond to someone who's just put me in "Ignore".

But here goes:

When someone new walks into the room and expresses what those already there consider naive - the polite thing to do is to at least first ask the person to introduce themself.

The poor OP made his observations and was immediately met with a "scold" that he was talking about "false economy".

From there on - it was a bunch of how "go pro, or no go" - on and on; pile up after pile up.

Did any of you even think that maybe the OP is a casual shooter on a limited income and was passing along some "savings" ideas to similarly-situated folk?

Not everyone here needs or can afford pro processing. Some folk just want to enjoy shooting some film.

No one in this thread extended a hand of welcome to a new poster. Maybe this site has just gotten too big for itself? :confused:

so did you do any of those welcoming things?

i assumed the op is a big boy who has the abilities necessary to express himself in the big bad old world, so i answered truthfully and honestly as i see the situation to which he referred

what did you do but criticise those who bothered to respond?

you didn't bother to even address the op, you just ragged on the rest of us

BrianShaw · Dec 22, 2007

(Thanks for "quoting" Ray)

Yes it does seem kind of ridiculous.

I don't believe any of the other people posting considered the OP's opinion as "naive"; there are other opinions on the topic so...

p.s. Welcome to APUG, Pukalo; It is not always like this... must be a full moon.

copake_ham · Dec 22, 2007

Ray Heath said:
so did you do any of those welcoming things?

i assumed the op is a big boy who has the abilities necessary to express himself in the big bad old world, so i answered truthfully and honestly as i see the situation to which he referred

what did you do but criticise those who bothered to respond?

you didn't bother to even address the op, you just ragged on the rest of us

1. No, I didn't. By the time I got to the "party" it was long past the "hello" stage.

2. Why do you assume the OP is a "big boy who has the abilities necessary to express himelf in the big bad old world...."?

It was his first post on the site. Perhaps, he is like a lot of us who came here thinking that "at last, I've found a photo site that isn't 'all digi, all the time'". Just because you are a "big boy" on the web - doesn't mean everyone is. In fact, the largest demographic now embracing the web are seniors - many of whom are quite naive to the technology.

3. I didn't address the OP's comments because I happen to generally agree with them. While I will use pro processing when I find it necessary - sometimes I just shoot casually. I've more than once dropped off a roll of film at Walgreen's.

Nothing he said was wrong and much was useful - especially to a more casual film shooter.

There was nothing "wrong" with the responses as to the information they conveyed. It is the attitude.

I'm closing in on 4000 posts here and have had my share of give it and take it. But the OP was posting for the first time. Hopefully, not the last.

Merry Christmas!

Akki14 · Dec 23, 2007

I guess George missed my link to Pukalo's original post to flickr's I Shoot Film group where he's gotten about 50/50 of the same kind of posts as here. He's just looking for more ideas. No problem.

I do like how every single thread I've replied to lately has decented into an utter online catfight. Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night.

eddie gunks · Dec 23, 2007

great stuff.

i use sams cub also. i have been working with this lab since it opened about 5 years ago. they clean their machines twice a day. chemistry is perfect. the techs are all photographers. no monkeys at this peanut place!

tis lab even figured out they could do 120 in house for me. so now i get my 120 developed only for 1.50$. i can send it out for 50 cents! (i just do not want to wait). both send out and in house charge the same for 120 and 220!

i get 135 developed and scanned for 3.50$

it all comes down to your local labs.

i am ordering a CPP2 lift and will be processing my own soon enough....i got the unit already but no lift.

eddie

IloveTLRs · Dec 23, 2007

Bulk-loading is good if you can get the film you want.

The other day over here I found only Plus-X, Tri-X and TMAX. No Acros, no Presto and no E-6 of any kind

davetravis · Dec 23, 2007

Pukalo,
Welcome to Apug!
I agree about saving money at Sam's club.
Matter of fact, there are photogs on the show circuit that sell up to 11x14's made exclusively there on FCA and they look great! The public doesn't care where they were made, only that they look good.
Thanks for the great first post.
DT

mabman · Dec 23, 2007

Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone's suggested using expired film yet - as long as it's been cold-stored, it should be fine.

I now have a stock of a variety of 35mm and 120 film (that I paid $1-$2 per roll for on average), so the rest of you can go nuts I got most of it from a "wanted to buy" ad on another site, and I had people from a variety of places in the US contact me - worked quite well. I did get burned earlier this year from an eBay seller called "collect888", which I found out from a search after the fact has happened to a number of people, so he is best avoided IMHO.

I do like Costco for 35mm C-41 (here they don't seem to do or have a service for 120) - no scratches, unlike the local Wal-mart.

Discpad · Dec 24, 2007

Randall, welcome aboard!

I do many of the same things myself, including Wal-Mart for C-41 "soup only." Did you notice that the criticism came from Europe and England, not the US of A?

What most of you don't know about Wal-Mart is that once a week a Fuji tech comes in and checks their Frontiers over; and every several weeks a regional manager comes in and goes through every envelope the store has processed.

All that being said, I almost always use their outlab service, which in New Jersey, goes to Fuji's Albany NY lab.

eddie gunks · Dec 24, 2007

expired film! how could i forget. i got freezers full of the stuff! good point.

most all labs can do 120.....they just do not know they can. fuji (my lab) supplies two 120 canisters to use with there machine. the techs just do not know what it is.

as for collect888. i saw him go down. i do not know what happened. i had bought many many rolls/sheets of film from him with no problems. then one day he stopped filling his orders. i did not get burned but i see lots of people did.

eddie

mabman said:
Maybe I missed it, but I don't think anyone's suggested using expired film yet - as long as it's been cold-stored, it should be fine.

I now have a stock of a variety of 35mm and 120 film (that I paid $1-$2 per roll for on average), so the rest of you can go nuts I got most of it from a "wanted to buy" ad on another site, and I had people from a variety of places in the US contact me - worked quite well. I did get burned earlier this year from an eBay seller called "collect888", which I found out from a search after the fact has happened to a number of people, so he is best avoided IMHO.

I do like Costco for 35mm C-41 (here they don't seem to do or have a service for 120) - no scratches, unlike the local Wal-mart.

gr82bart · Dec 24, 2007

Welcome to APUG Pukalo!

I have also found one of the best ways to get decent quality colour prints is at Wal-Marts. In fact, I use them to make proofs before I send my files to a pro-lab like Elevator. Beside being inexpensive and value added, they have a quick turn around (cost a bit extra for 1 hour process and print), they're nearby too, and their FTP site is very easy to use - quite intuitive. Plus they're analog prints!

I recently made some prints for the WTCD Print Exchange at Wal-Mart and I thought the images looked fine to me. The recipients may have a differing opinion?

For me, it's not the cost that's the problem, it's the time. I've got all the equipment to process and print (colour and B&W) at home, just not the time to do it right. If I could process film and make prints at work, in an airport lounge or on the Metro North Rail - hallelujah!

Regards, Art.

bdial · Dec 24, 2007

I mostly use my local camera shop for C-41 processing and color printing, I have no idea what their price is compared to Wal-mart. But working with them has paid off in other ways, such as the 40 rolls of expired, refrigerated 120 they gave me last summer, big discounts on B&W paper, free prints for referring a buyer to them, etc. On top of that, their processing is absolutely reliable, they use Kodak materials, and I know the people running my film by name.

waynecrider · Dec 24, 2007

Pukalo thanks for the useful post. I had been shying away from alot of color work till now.

keithwms · Dec 24, 2007

Welcome Pukalo. Don't worry if some posts aren't helpful, you will always have a mix of helpful and not-so-helpful input. Democracy.

I too have had some good results from Walmart, when on the road. However, when at home, I take the survival of my local pro store very seriously. I am happy to pay a bit extra for them to handle everything and do the best possible job. Except b&w sheets, which I process myself when I have time. But my store does same-day LF E6 up to 8x10", and I am doing everything I can to keep that service alive, locally. C41 just isn't my thing.

The flip side of going for the lowest price is that it has a tendency to reduce the total number of options available to the consumer, in the long run.

srs5694 · Dec 24, 2007

Another option: Store-brand film. These days it's mostly made by Fuji and Ferrania. In the past Konica and Agfa played in this arena, but Agfa's folded and Konica has stopped making film and paper, so any of their stuff is likely to be outdated by now. I've seen claims that Kodak is now also supplying third parties, but I have yet to see it myself. At any rate, the Fuji film is likely to be marked as being made in Japan and the Ferrania as being made in Italy. Most people consider the Ferrania film to be inferior to Kodak or Fuji film, but the rebranded Fuji film is most likely the same as Fuji's own consumer-grade film. (I don't have any formal tests to back this up, though; it's an assumption.)

Personally, I seldom buy store-brand film because B&H, Adorama, and other big mail-order outfits often sell the equivalent name-brand films for less than the brick-and-mortar stores sell their stuff. Also, getting 36-exposure rolls of store brand film can be hard. Locally, only Walgreens (rebranded Fuji) is available in 36-exposure rolls. Using store-brand film can make sense if the store is running a sale or if you need some film in a hurry, though.

One more point: Buying larger rolls (36 vs. 24 exposures, say) usually increases economy on a per-frame basis. This is true both for the film and the processing.

firecracker · Dec 24, 2007

This is from an experienced photojournalist's perspective (written in Japanese though):

http://www.daysjapan.net/editor/index.html

What it says is for doing a photo exhibit, he uses pro labs for film processing and printing images, but to get small proof prints, he uses an 1hr type of lab to cut the cost.

Sounds good to me. It's a matter of how one can handle the volume of the photos all at once.

Meanwhile, I as an amateur make small (3x5" ish) proof prints on inkjet paper at home after scanning the negs. I find that this is more cost-benefit and takes less labor (in my own estimate) than using the traditional method (at home) and have more control (no test strip necessary) on each image as I can see it on a computer screen. Sure the ink is costly, but I can pin-point the shots I want and that takes less paper (a different kind of paper though).

Sadly from a few rolls of 35mm negs, I don't usually have too many great shots to keep!

Anyway, in this stage I play around and choose either B&W (well, not truely B&W but...) or sepia and plan for the next stage, which is the actual darkroom printing. That way the only thing I need to do in the darkroom is making final prints (of course with some testing included but not too much) and nothing else.

I have to be clear that I don't make contact prints on a regular basis because the volume of the images is so low. But if I come back from a trip with 50 to 100 rolls of film to process, I will end up making contact prints and forget about the inkjet stuff. It really depends, but those big trips don't happen so often.

But the other benefit of doing this is that I can get the inkjet paper at any electronic store nearby, so when I run out I can just go there and grab one. There is no fear of seeing it disappear from the shelf!

For traditional photo paper, I have to order and wait a week to receive it. That's a bit of a pain.

MattKing · Dec 25, 2007

My local Walmart uses kodak paper and chemistry, and does decent low resolution scans for $1.97 per roll, so I use them for proofs, and web posting.

Then I get analogue prints from the lab next door of those negatives I want enlarged.

It works for me.

Matt

Minolta93 · Apr 24, 2022

I'm going to bring this thread back from the dead and ask anyone what they do today to keep it affordable. I think it's even more relevant now than when this thread was opened.

So, what do you do? I'm considering bulk rolling B&W. I don't want to shell out for a bulk loader, but I think I might be able to do it with a string cut to the length of the film needed for 24 or 36 exposures, my dark bag that I already have, and some used cassettes.

koraks · Apr 24, 2022

Think before pressing the shutter release. It's the one thing that REALLY saves money and brings improvement in so many different areas.

RalphLambrecht · Apr 24, 2022

pukalo said:
How about a thread on reducing costs associated with film photography - it does get expensive. Here are my tips for keeping it affordable (others please add your tips):

- For 35mm negatives - get them developed at Target for only 94 cents, next day development only. Buy the $100 photo gift card to save another 20%, or about 76 cents a roll for negs only. Add the Target Photo CD for 2.99 if you need it. Includes both hi and low res scans. Better quality and less expensive than the Kodal CD they also offer. (Kodak has lower res scans, but you get a pretty yellow Kodak disc rather than a red Target disk)

-Get a Costco or Sams Club membership. Those negs you got developed at Target can be printed at Costco on a top of the line Fuji Frontier using Crystal Archive paper for only 15 cents a frame for 4x6 or 37 cents for 5x7 or 1.49 for an 8x10 or 8x12. Need even larger? As I said, they have the most expensive/best Frontier you can buy, and can do 11x14 or 12x18 prints for only 2.49. Plus, their quality is great, as good as any pro lab. If you have a film scanner, you can get pro color profiles and e-mail in your order, But I figure, why waste Your time scanning when they will do it for you and print it for only 15 cents? Plus, even with my Minolta Scan Elite 5400 top end film scanner, I notice that with high speed grainy film , their scanner and algorythyms do a much better job at reducing grain and smoothing the image out.
Sadly, they used to do send out slides for 3.19/4.19 a 24/36 exp. roll, but cancelled the sendout program last Fall.

-For Kodachrome, use the much hated Walmart via their sendout envelopes for only 3.88/4.88 a 24/36 exp roll. But sleep well at night knowing that it is not Walmart, but Fuji Processing and Dwaynes Photo in Kansas getting the business.

_For Medium Format, again there is a great deal, but you will have to walk into a Walmart store. I hate walmart too, but I keep my consious cleen by remembering that their sendout service is to Fuji Labs. Fuji is keeping film photography alive, and still bringing out new films. I would rather support them, than that over priced pro lab down the street that has sold out to digital and delivers mediocre quality and poor customer service. Even if Fuji were more, I would use them. But the beauty is that they are not. In fact, they have great prices. Check this out: 1.80 for negs developed AND 16 3x5 prints from 120 film. Strangely, it is 6 bucks if you use 220 film with 32 prints. 120 OR 220 E-6 slides for only 4.88. Fantastic deal - and fantastic quality. Use the send out envelopes, and mark the Special Instructions box at the bottom, for example: 120 size C-41 negative film, 3x5 matte prints, 2 week special service. Or, 220 E-6 slide film, 2 week special service. Dont worry, it never takes 2 weeks, usually about a week.

For 35mm slides, you have 2 choices: Use Fuji Processing thru walmart or get the Fuji Slide mailers. THe slide mailers will get you better looking slide boxes and mounts, both printed with the Green Fujichrome label. Thru walmart you get an ugly black plastic box and 1960's style slide mount printing ("Color Slide" printed in a funny looking red font). Sendout thru the store is 3.88/4.88 a 24/36 exp roll. The mailers are 5 bucks each thru BH Photo or Adorama. To save on postage, mail 2 or more at a time in a larger envelope and postage will only cost 40-60 cents a roll.

BW (not C41) film - get negs only developed at Fuji Labs thru Walmart. About $1.50/roll. Have best frames printed for 30 cents ea. or so.

Film - order online from BH Photo and Adorama both out of NYC. Shipping is 5 dollars, so order several rolls at a time. But their prices are unbeatable, as well as a huge selection of films still available.
www.bhphoto.com or www.adorama.com

Hope this helps others keep on shooting without going broke or digital. Any other tips would be great.

analog photography no longer is a cheap hobby. Let's hope that it raises its value too.

Down Under · Apr 24, 2022

What I wrote for posting got undone by Ralph's post. Obviously he revived this dinosaur thread.

I do wonder if copake_ham ever got removed from Brian's ignore list. Or whatever happened to him.

Please, please put me out of my misery and post something relevant, copake...

Agulliver · Apr 24, 2022

I bulk roll B&W and have switched to Fomapan as my preferred 35mm 100 and 200 ISO films. I also bulk roll Ilford HP5+ as I use a lot of it, by amateur standards anyway. Usually at least a roll a week of HP5+

I have always developed B&W at home, and I shop around for my chemicals. I've been gifted some more developing tanks and associated equipment as friends sadly lose older relatives and find such items when clearing houses. You can certainly obtain more gear and darkroom equipment this way.

For medium format, I usually shoot Fomapan 400 or 100 in 120 B&W, I find it's sufficiently high quality for my needs though every now and then I have a roll of FP4+ or HP5+ Obviously bulk rolling isn't an option here so I look for deals and often buy a brick or two when it's close to going out of date. No loyalty to specific vendors, I buy when it's at the right price for me.

For colour 35mm, I've generally settled on Kodak Color Plus and Ultramax being my faves in 135, and I discovered a few years ago that my local mini-lab (inside my local camera shop, to which I can walk if I feel like it) does develop and scan for £4 flat rate any format including 127 and 110. Prints add to the cost so I tend to choose specific negatives to print after seeing scans. I keep a small number of rolls of Ektar as it's special especially in summer with flowers and brightly coloured scenes. For 120 I tend to go with Ektar but I may just change to Gold 200 now depending on how my first roll turns out (3 frames left to shoot as I type). I use mostly vintage folding cameras for MF and have found the more saturated films tend to work with the older lenses that might not be coated with colour in mind. I do look fo ,deals on Lomography 400 and 100 CN films in 120 and when I can get hold of it at a decent price I buy a 3 pack of Lomography 800 in 35mm

YMMV depending on where you live. Here in the UK 135 Gold is much more expensive than Color Plus, and I prefer the latter anyway. I keep a few bags of film in a drawer under my bed, likely a year's supply, so I buy when I see a good deal. I know processing isn't going to break the bank as long as my local lab remains in operation.

Honestly I think the best decision I took was to buy four bulk loaders when people were selling off darkroom equipment for peanuts 10-20 years ago. That doesn't help people now, but you can still find them on that famous auction site as well as local ads - which might well be cheaper. CHeck out bulk roll prices available to you in your country/area and decide if it's for you. Probably saves me over a third on B&W film costs.

Also my wife got me the Ilford "12 films of Christmas" advent calendar-type box last year which certainly contains films with a retail price considerably more than the box cost. Every film Ilford makes in 135 plus some stickers, cassette opener, badges. That was a very nice gift even if the Ortho and SFX will hang around until I think of a suitable set of circumstances.

pentaxuser · Apr 24, 2022

ozmoose said:
I do wonder if copake_ham ever got removed from Brian's ignore list. Or whatever happened to him.

Please, please put me out of my misery and post something relevant, copake...

ozmoose, I am pretty sure that copake_ham may have been removed or left under mutual agreement many moons ago.

I have re-read the whole thread only to find I also made a comment in it but more intriguingly feel that with hindsight, copake_ ham had a reasonable point about the thread being in the colour section and yet very quickly seem to centre on b&w matters

In fact the point of the thread was saving money on photography and the OP gave us numerous ways of doing this without mentioning either colour or b&w but ended in more specific terms that did seem to be centred on colour

JBrunner, the mod, disagreed with copake_ham's assertion in a perfectly reasonable way but instead of both parties re-examining the evidence and concluding that each had a valid point, matters deteriorated from there as is often the case

The whole basis of the thread now in the light of changes to the cost of photography appears almost comical and Minolta93's comment about the need to find ways now on 2022 to make it more affordable has a large element of humorous understatement about it

Of further interest at least for me is that while we have lost a number of the 2007 contributors in the intervening years we maintained the interest of the OP until just over a year ago. Indeed he may just be having a break from posting

Usually I can see when someone last visited but with JBrunner, the mod, cannot this on his profile. I don't think I have seen him for some time but given that I had no idea I had contributed back in 2007 either, I could equally be wrong in my perception that it has been some time since I last saw him

pentaxuser

Minolta93 · Apr 24, 2022

pentaxuser said:
The whole basis of the thread now in the light of changes to the cost of photography appears almost comical and Minolta93's comment about the need to find ways now on 2022 to make it more affordable has a large element of humorous understatement about it

I'm glad you found it amusing. If only they'd known in 2007 people would be scalping a roll of ColorPlus for $17...

Agulliver said:
I bulk roll B&W and have switched to Fomapan as my preferred 35mm 100 and 200 ISO films. I also bulk roll Ilford HP5+ as I use a lot of it, by amateur standards anyway. Usually at least a roll a week of HP5+

I'm thinking about bulk rolling myself but in my experience I feel that Fomapan 400 (which I bought under the Arista label) was too grainy for me. I use Rodinal. Do you use a different developer?

I personally was looking at a 100ft. roll of Kentmere 400.

Sirius Glass · Apr 24, 2022

Minolta93 said:
I'm going to bring this thread back from the dead and ask anyone what they do today to keep it affordable. I think it's even more relevant now than when this thread was opened.

So, what do you do? I'm considering bulk rolling B&W. I don't want to shell out for a bulk loader, but I think I might be able to do it with a string cut to the length of the film needed for 24 or 36 exposures, my dark bag that I already have, and some used cassettes.

Buy a good bulk loader and you will be ahead in the long run, by not fogging the bulk roll and consistent length roll regardless of length.

Keeping It Affordable

Ray Heath

BrianShaw

copake_ham

Akki14

eddie gunks

IloveTLRs

davetravis

mabman

Discpad

eddie gunks

gr82bart

bdial

waynecrider

keithwms

srs5694

firecracker

MattKing

Moderator

Minolta93

koraks

Moderator

RalphLambrecht

Down Under

Agulliver

pentaxuser

Minolta93

Sirius Glass

Keeping It Affordable

Moderator

Moderator

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Privacy & Transparency