Keeping film during a road trip

markjwyatt · Jul 11, 2018

Arklatexian said:
Made a trip into the desert southwest once. Had an ice chest in the trunk with about 20 lbs of ice in it. Not in the container used to normally hold the ice. In that I put 4x5 film holders loaded with Ektachrome. After a full day of desert travel, I opened the chest to get my films out only to find the ice had melted, the box holding the loaded filmholders had floated, turned over, and the holders were floating in the water. I tried to salvage what I could to no avail. Everything was ruined. The Moral of this story? Don't do what I did. Put the ice where it belongs with enough beer or cold drinks to keep it in its place and carry the film and holders somewhere else............Regards!

I would think that beer would take first priority followed by film then medicine and food...

erian · Jul 11, 2018

guangong said:
Film is very robust. Just think about all those feature films shot in hot deserts as well as documentaries made in both humid and dry hot conditions.

I just watched the commentary about making of Lawrence of Arabia and they actually had problems with heat. They got little blotches on the film that went away when they came up with a cooling solution for the cameras and they also kept all their film refrigerated.

Of course southern Europe is not a desert and is hardly comparable but still, the heat can apparently have effect on the film. Well, at least it had that time.

Mr Bill · Jul 11, 2018

erian said:
I just watched the commentary about making of Lawrence of Arabia and they actually had problems with heat. They got little blotches on the film that went away when they came up with a cooling solution for the cameras and they also kept all their film refrigerated.

Remember, too, that Lawrence of Arabia was from roughly 1962, virtually ancient history in the history of "modern" color films. There were tremendous advances in color film technologies for at least 40 years after that. The film I referred to, VPS III, was circa (roughly) 1980s to 1990s, some 20 plus years after Lawrence was filmed.

guangong · Jul 12, 2018

erian said:
I just watched the commentary about making of Lawrence of Arabia and they actually had problems with heat. They got little blotches on the film that went away when they came up with a cooling solution for the cameras and they also kept all their film refrigerated.

Of course southern Europe is not a desert and is hardly comparable but still, the heat can apparently have effect on the film. Well, at least it had that time.

I haven’t seen the documentary of which you speak, however I have read about the making of many films made in hot arid deserts of the US and Mexico, where excessive heat was more of a problem for operators, crew and actors than for film. I don’t doubt you, just never heard about it. Did they innovate cooling system or was it purchased? I ask, because such a big budget movie would naturally demand every precaution. Refrigerated and probably under lock and key. Also, keep in mind that all of the film for LofA was most likely professional grade and from one uniform production run, uniformity from one reel to another is of utmost importance. Our OP and you and I will most likely not be faced with these constraints.
On the other hand, I crossed Great Salt Lake and other desert areas in a VW without air conditioning with Kodachrome movie film with no problem at all. And like all VWs in those days, no heat from vents in winter, but ankles burned in summer. Too much film to take inside every time we stopped to eat and film survived.

erian · Jul 12, 2018

guangong said:
Did they innovate cooling system or was it purchased?

They used ad-hoc evaporative cooling and IR shielding i.e. they enclosed the film holder into a wet white cloth.

erian · Jul 12, 2018

guangong said:
LofA was most likely professional grade and from one uniform production run, uniformity from one reel to another is of utmost importance.

They used 65mm film stock.

I found another note about the heat effects on the film stock used for Lawrence of Arabia.

"According to Grover Crisp, executive VP of restoration at Sony Pictures, the new 8K scan has such high resolution that when examined, showed a series of fine concentric lines in a pattern "reminiscent of a fingerprint" near the top of the frame. This was caused by the film emulsion melting and cracking in the desert heat during production." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawre...estoration,_Blu-ray_and_theatrical_re-release

Ces1um · Jul 12, 2018

erian said:
They used 65mm film stock.

I found another note about the heat effects on the film stock used for Lawrence of Arabia.

"According to Grover Crisp, executive VP of restoration at Sony Pictures, the new 8K scan has such high resolution that when examined, showed a series of fine concentric lines in a pattern "reminiscent of a fingerprint" near the top of the frame. This was caused by the film emulsion melting and cracking in the desert heat during production." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawre...estoration,_Blu-ray_and_theatrical_re-release

That's very interesting but I wonder how they determined that heat had cracked the emulsion at the time of shooting? When they performed those 8K scans the film was essentially 50 years old. Obviously they know better than I do, but could some of that cracking simply be because of the passing of time over the last half century? Just curious.

jeffreyg · Jul 12, 2018

I don't think there will be a problem with the film. I have never stored film in a refrigerator and have never had a problem with heat on film including a trip to Egypt where the temperature was over 100F in the shade in some areas. That said, it would be prudent to avoid lengthy exposure to high temperatures. When leaving the car parked in the sun take the film with you in a backpack. If it is still a concern use the gel cold packs or a cold bottle of water. It is very often more than 86F where I live and my film takes it much better than me. Enjoy your trip don't worry about the film.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

Vaughn · Jul 12, 2018

I use an ice chest -- found an old one (that needs replacing) that holds 8x10 holders perfectly (new ice chests have too many rounded corners).

I sometimes freeze cans of beer to help keep the film cool in the ice chest. Don't leak when they melt, and consummable!

Alan Edward Klein · Jul 12, 2018

You think we have problems keeping film. Check these guys out from the 1800's.
William Henry Jackson
https://www.wyohistory.org/encyclopedia/william-henry-jackson-foremost-photographer-american-west

guangong · Jul 12, 2018

erian said:
They used 65mm film stock.

I found another note about the heat effects on the film stock used for Lawrence of Arabia.

"According to Grover Crisp, executive VP of restoration at Sony Pictures, the new 8K scan has such high resolution that when examined, showed a series of fine concentric lines in a pattern "reminiscent of a fingerprint" near the top of the frame. This was caused by the film emulsion melting and cracking in the desert heat during production." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawre...estoration,_Blu-ray_and_theatrical_re-release

For movie making, it is not the gage of the film, but the consistency of the film stock. Also, professional movie film, especially color film, has a shorter shelf life. In other words, best if all of the film used in a movie comes from the same manufactured batch. When I order 16mm film from Kodak all boxes for my order have the same batch number. Otherwise, edited film could appear uneven with regard to exposure and color. With a feature film big bucks are at stake. When shooting still film, from which individual prints or slides will be made, such consistently is much less a problem.
I was also in Egypt, shortly before Obama destabilized the country, and had no problem with color slide film although spent quite some time in the desert visiting Coptic monasteries. Traveled most of the time by car. Very hot!
Be respectful of those directors and movie makers that make feature films using short ends.

1kgcoffee · Jul 12, 2018

If you're going on a road trip you'll certainly want to have a cooler. Just keep the film inside a small tupperware container

Keeping film during a road trip

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