Keeping film during a road trip

erian · Jul 9, 2018

I am planning a road trip to the souther parts of Europe and I am concerned about keeping my film in a good condition.

When car is not parked in the shade then temperature in the vehicle can rise considerably high (40-50 C (104-122 F)) even when the temperature is relatively moderate (< 30 C (86 F)).

It does not sound healthy for the film.

My current assumption is that even when the film will survive the trip then it its longevity will be reduced and I should try to take just enough of film with me.

I am also considering if I should invest into a portable fridge but then I am afraid of depleting the battery.

Please share your opinions and experience.

Mr Bill · Jul 9, 2018

Hi, I think that the film is probably a lot most rugged than you think. I can't say for certain, today, or even with a variety of films today. But a bunch of years back, I oversaw some pretty substantial testing of the Kodak professional color neg film of the day, VPSIII (this was the forerunner to Portra).

Basically we kept unexposed film in a hot box at 140 deg F, periodically pulling out a sample. We would then make a controlled "sensitometric" exposure (it was via a step-wedge, essentially equivalent to an accurately-metered exposure to a very long scale gray target, but with no lens flare) and process the film. There were essentially NO CHANGES in the film response until somwhere from 350 to 400 continuous hours of heat, whereupon further time produced continuous degradation. This would be roughly 2 weeks, based on 24 hours per day. But given that the sun is only in play for roughly half the day, you might say it's more similar to a month in a VERY hot trunk. (Note, I measured temperatures in an actual car trunk, in the sun on a mid-90 degree F day, and I don't think, from a very fuzzy memory, that the lower part of the trunk even reached 120 F. Easy enough for someone to verify, though.)

Here's a link; my posts were #88 and #67, I think.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...ch-of-a-difference.114933/page-4#post-1519347

I would personally suggest to get a small, what we call an "ice chest," an insulated box normally intended to hold your food along with a sack of ice. But don't actually put ice in it; just use it as an insulated container to hold your film. Keep it in the bottom of your trunk, possibly with other things, maybe blankets for example, on top of it. This will delay the temperature rise for your film.

I agree with you not to take too awfully much more film than you'll use, but I'm pretty doubtful you'll be able to see any effect on your film, provided that it is a well-known mainstream film.

Sirius Glass · Jul 9, 2018

The film will keep during the trip in a hot car, but it will keep better in some insulated container, like a food pack. https://www.google.com/search?q=ins...iBjpPcAhVGxLwKHR0tCGAQsxgIJw&biw=1366&bih=628

Truzi · Jul 9, 2018

Windows don't help, so don't keep it in the passenger compartment if you have a choice.
I keep mine in zip-lock bags and place them in a cooler with a frozen gel pack. The cooler goes in the trunk. At night I take it in the hotel with me.

Poisson Du Jour · Jul 9, 2018

erian said:
I am also considering if I should invest into a portable fridge but then I am afraid of depleting the battery.

I do not know what is available to you in the market in far-flung Luxembourg, but a few thoughts based on very long experience as a traveller through both very cold and very hot climates here in Australia based on economics and practicality. The fewer complications to travelling and daily travel reliability, the better!

Electric fridges are OK for well-equipped 4WDs with the appropriate forward and stand-by (car off) electrics, space and power. For ordinary sedans and wagons, they are heavy, consume a huge amount of physical space, and conversely offer a fairly poor interior storage space. Without the electrical infrastructure in the car, they are definitely not a good buy. Electric fridges properly provisioned for travel do not draw much power from the vehicle, but from a secondary battery installed, often in the engine bay, more often still in a caravan being towed. More still can operate on gas cylinders.

On the other hand, insulated coolers are just fine. Store film in a watertight plastic container and place either/both a bag of ice and ice bricks in the cooler. Drain melted ice periodically and refreeze ice-bricks when you have the opportunity during travels. In any case, the film will remain cool and well below the threshold where heat can cause casting and lost of speed (particularly for higher speed colour/B&W films). Repeated cycles of warm-cold do not harm lower speed films but common sense should prevail.

Sirius Glass · Jul 9, 2018

Poisson Du Jour said:
I do not know what is available to you in the market in far-flung Luxembourg, but a few thoughts based on very long experience as a traveller through both very cold and very hot climates here in Australia based on economics and practicality. The fewer complications to travelling and daily travel reliability, the better!

Electric fridges are OK for well-equipped 4WDs with the appropriate forward and stand-by (car off) electrics, space and power. For ordinary sedans and wagons, they are heavy, consume a huge amount of physical space, and conversely offer a fairly poor interior storage space. Without the electrical infrastructure in the car, they are definitely not a good buy. Electric fridges properly provisioned for travel do not draw much power from the vehicle, but from a secondary battery installed, often in the engine bay, more often still in a caravan being towed. More still can operate on gas cylinders.

A good summary of onboard refrigerators. Poor use of space and requires a separate battery and charging system. I have investigated it several times for my 4WD and decided it is not a good use of money.

Poisson Du Jour said:
On the other hand, insulated coolers are just fine. Store film in a watertight plastic container and place either/both a bag of ice and ice bricks in the cooler. Drain melted ice periodically and refreeze ice-bricks when you have the opportunity during travels. In any case, the film will remain cool and well below the threshold where heat can cause casting and lost of speed (particularly for higher speed colour/B&W films). Repeated cycles of warm-cold do not harm lower speed films but common sense should prevail.

This is what I do especially if I am in the desert. Listen to him.

BradS · Jul 9, 2018

good grief man! Film is not that fragile.
Obviously, It would be better to not leave it in the car if at all possible...are you staying in hotels or something? Carrying a backpack? As others have suggested, it will be fine in the car in an ice chest - even without ice. Film really, REALLY does not need to be kept in a freezer all the time! You're not photographing stuff for the Sears and Roebuck catalog! Relax. Enjoy your travels. Don't worry about the film.

Sirius Glass · Jul 9, 2018

BradS said:
good grief man! Film is not that fragile.
Obviously, It would be better to not leave it in the car if at all possible...are you staying in hotels or something? Carrying a backpack? As others have suggested, it will be fine in the car in an ice chest - even without ice. Film really, REALLY does not need to be kept in a freezer all the time! You're not photographing stuff for the Sears and Roebuck catalog! Relax. Enjoy your travels. Don't worry about the film.

Good points. I only take each day's film with me and the rest stays in the room.

Poisson Du Jour · Jul 10, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
A good summary of onboard refrigerators. Poor use of space and requires a separate battery and charging system. I have investigated it several times for my 4WD and decided it is not a good use of money.

I still have the receipts for installation of a 56 litre Engel Explorer fridge in our Pajero 4WD (2010 prices):

1. Fridge: AUD$1,760 (unpacked weight 51kg)
2. Sliding rail assembly and lock-downs; AUD$230
3. Installation of auxiliary electrics by auto electrician (wiring loom, relays, deep cycle second battery, high capacity alternator/generator) $2,220 with 7 hours labour
TOTAL: AUD$4,190 (split among 3 on the trip)
EURO2,665.35 for the OP's info.

On the positive side, this typical road-going, remote area 4WD set up worked a dream unfailingly in the heat of the Australian outback (47 degrees occasionally when there was no shade to put the car in) and kept everything cold. BUT, I would often have to store the film separately in collapsible or solid-wall coolers because there just was not the space for food, drinks, meats, vegies AND film! Even the beer had to be stored outside the fridge. You bet I was cranky! I refuse to drink warm beer!!

On our return home we sold the 4WD, the fridge an the caravan.
And the Esky and I and all the film therein lived happily ever after...

Arklatexian · Jul 10, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
The film will keep during the trip in a hot car, but it will keep better in some insulated container, like a food pack. https://www.google.com/search?q=ins...iBjpPcAhVGxLwKHR0tCGAQsxgIJw&biw=1366&bih=628

Made a trip into the desert southwest once. Had an ice chest in the trunk with about 20 lbs of ice in it. Not in the container used to normally hold the ice. In that I put 4x5 film holders loaded with Ektachrome. After a full day of desert travel, I opened the chest to get my films out only to find the ice had melted, the box holding the loaded filmholders had floated, turned over, and the holders were floating in the water. I tried to salvage what I could to no avail. Everything was ruined. The Moral of this story? Don't do what I did. Put the ice where it belongs with enough beer or cold drinks to keep it in its place and carry the film and holders somewhere else............Regards!

RattyMouse · Jul 10, 2018

erian said:
I am planning a road trip to the souther parts of Europe and I am concerned about keeping my film in a good condition.

When car is not parked in the shade then temperature in the vehicle can rise considerably high (40-50 C (104-122 F)) even when the temperature is relatively moderate (< 30 C (86 F)).

It does not sound healthy for the film.

My current assumption is that even when the film will survive the trip then it its longevity will be reduced and I should try to take just enough of film with me.

I am also considering if I should invest into a portable fridge but then I am afraid of depleting the battery.

Please share your opinions and experience.

Just keep it out of direct sunlight. I put my film if need be in the hatch of my car, which is fully covered and out of the sun. No need to worry so much about film.

removed account4 · Jul 10, 2018

BradS said:
good grief man! Film is not that fragile.
Obviously, It would be better to not leave it in the car if at all possible...are you staying in hotels or something? Carrying a backpack? As others have suggested, it will be fine in the car in an ice chest - even without ice. Film really, REALLY does not need to be kept in a freezer all the time! You're not photographing stuff for the Sears and Roebuck catalog! Relax. Enjoy your travels. Don't worry about the film.

uh huh
the thread mr bill linked to specifically stated that exact same thing
i mean he and his colleagues made a hot box and basically cooked the film
and it came out fine..
ups and fed ex drivers have film baking in the back of their trucks for hours on end
and then leave it on a door stoop in blazing sunshine, and it's "pro film" and it works fine...
in a car is kids stuff ...

have a nice vacation !

Ces1um · Jul 10, 2018

Often if I finish a roll of film (120 or 35mm) I just leave it in my car until I can get to the lab. I'll throw it in the glove compartment and it can sometimes stay there for up to a week in the summer. I've never seen anything akin to damage. I wouldn't worry about it at all, in any way.

guangong · Jul 10, 2018

Film is very robust. Just think about all those feature films shot in hot deserts as well as documentaries made in both humid and dry hot conditions. I wouldn’t deliberately snub the gods by purposely putting film in extremely hot places but will survive everyday conditions. The only film that was a little finicky was Professional Kodachrome, not around for a very long time.

Stephen Schoof · Jul 10, 2018

I posted my experience with an informal test a few years ago: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/velvia-50-and-the-heat.107175/

Bottom line, as others have said, is common sense: keep it out of direct sun and insulated as best you can (I use my spare clothes), and then don't worry about it.

Mr Bill · Jul 10, 2018

Arklatexian said:
After a full day of desert travel, I opened the chest to get my films out only to find the ice had melted, the box holding the loaded filmholders had floated, turned over, and the holders were floating in the water. I tried to salvage what I could to no avail. Everything was ruined.

This is mainly why I would not keep my film in a cooler with ice. (I already know from experience that I can't even reliably keep food from getting wet in a cooler.) It's just too risky for me. A secondary reason is fear of condensation when pulling cold film out of the box.

Now, if the film were that delicate it would be a different story. But it's not, at least not the Kodak professional color negative film that I tested. Maybe high-speed color neg films or transparency films, or even b&w films are more delicate; I dunno.

Stephen Schoof said:
I posted my experience with an informal test a few years ago:

Thanks for the link Stephen. When I did my heat stress testing I had originally wanted to actually do it in a car. But with outdoor temp ~ 90 to 95 F the car was not getting nearly as hot as I wanted, so finally went with a rigged-up hot box. (In the car, I was just taking periodic readings with a digital VOM meter and a temperature sensor dangling inside.)

Your thermometer stored with the film, in duffel bag with clothes, in the trunk, was especially revealing to me. It supports my pet theory that a bit of insulation around film in the trunk is pretty significant (although I never measured it myself).

DWThomas · Jul 10, 2018

In 2016 I took a bunch of 120 B&W film, mostly a mix of HP5 and 400TX, on a 5800 mile 3 1/2 week automotive "wandering" of the US from the Philadelphia suburbs in eastern PA across the midwest to southern Utah and northern Arizona with a bit of New Mexico and Colorado thrown in. As much for "organization" as anything, I kept the film in a couple of those insulated nylon zipper lunch cases that may fit a six-pack. Realistically, that may not limit the ultimate temperature extremes, but at least slows the rate of change. On some days the outdoor air temperature was well over 100ºF. That said, the stash was in the back cargo area of my modest SUV (Mazda CX-5) so that space is part of or at least open to the air conditioned passenger space. But many days the car was parked somewhere in the sun most of the day. I can't say I saw any evidence of problems. I think it's when you stick a few rolls (or carry-in-the-car camera) in the glove compartment for many months -- or years -- that there are more likely to be cumulative effects.

I have here a gift bulk roll of Panatomic-X (whooo-hoooo!) acquired in 2014, expiration date December 1988, that I've been using occasionally. It is still surprisingly serviceable. It lived in the house of a friend of a friend in western Pennsylvania and I don't believe it was ever refrigerated, though that's not a certainty in its earliest history.

As I see it, caution is good, knowingly abusing film is bad, but I don't lose too much sleep over it.

erian · Jul 10, 2018

Many thanks for all the replies.

i think i will put my film into some insulated box at least and when I can pick up some very cheap portable fridge then I will use it. I will put either way some thermal load into the container (special freezer canisters) to keep the temperatures more even.

Using temperature loggers is a good idea. I ordered a pair to do some essential testing.

Sirius Glass · Jul 10, 2018

Arklatexian said:
Made a trip into the desert southwest once. Had an ice chest in the trunk with about 20 lbs of ice in it. Not in the container used to normally hold the ice. In that I put 4x5 film holders loaded with Ektachrome. After a full day of desert travel, I opened the chest to get my films out only to find the ice had melted, the box holding the loaded filmholders had floated, turned over, and the holders were floating in the water. I tried to salvage what I could to no avail. Everything was ruined. The Moral of this story? Don't do what I did. Put the ice where it belongs with enough beer or cold drinks to keep it in its place and carry the film and holders somewhere else............Regards!

You missed the parts about the ice placed in ZipLok bags or use the packaged blue ice. Also you missed the part about putting the film in ZipLok bags.

Sirius Glass · Jul 10, 2018

Ces1um said:
Often if I finish a roll of film (120 or 35mm) I just leave it in my car until I can get to the lab. I'll throw it in the glove compartment and it can sometimes stay there for up to a week in the summer. I've never seen anything akin to damage. I wouldn't worry about it at all, in any way.

You were lucky. Many, many others have had problems leaving film in the glove box. I guess if someone told you that they jumped out of an airplane, then you would too.

Wallendo · Jul 10, 2018

I would place the film in a cooler, but would not use ice. It would seem to me that taking film from a cold cooler and then shooting it in the heat would cause a rapid temperature change - maybe it wouldn't be a problem, but in the Southern US, this tends to produce a good deal of condensation. My experience is that the trunk of my car stays reasonably cool even in summer (it may help that I drive a white car). In a car like mine, I could probably omit the cooler. In a SUV or similar vehicle without a closed trunk, I would definitely use a cooler.

Ces1um · Jul 11, 2018

Sirius Glass said:
You were lucky. Many, many others have had problems leaving film in the glove box. I guess if someone told you that they jumped out of an airplane, then you would too.

my post:
"Often if I finish a roll of film (120 or 35mm) I just leave it in my car until I can get to the lab. I'll throw it in the glove compartment and it can sometimes stay there for up to a week in the summer. I've never seen anything akin to damage. I wouldn't worry about it at all, in any way."

I have no idea what you're rambling on about with me jumping out of an airplane about. I haven't left it in my glove compartment because others have recommended it. I've left it there because it's been convenient for me and I've suffered no issues from it. Did you have a bad day yesterday?

zen_zanon · Jul 11, 2018

I traveled with my film for 9 months in SE Asia (temps ~25C to 40C) without it once seeing a fridge and very rarely seeing air conditioning. Everything developed just fine and looks great.

I've also done month long roadtrips in the Western US where my film was in the car for 3+ weeks. Again, no issues.

dabsond · Jul 11, 2018

Just spent 3 weeks in Europe toting around a lot of Provia 100. There were many times where the film was stored in hot cars, etc. No problems, shot through 10 rolls. When I got home, unused film went back in the freezer.

Frank53 · Jul 11, 2018

I’m sure it’s always best to keep film as cool as possible, but I would not worry too much about a few weeks in Europe. Usually it does not get over 35C in most places, mostly temperatures are lower.
In the early 70’s I made a few overland trips to India and I remember one trip that took 6 months, most of it in summer. I took 50 rolls of Ektachrome 35mm and about 80 or 90 rolls black and white 120. Most of the time all film stayed in the back of the car, travelling through deserts and India during the monsoon. No airconditioning and no fridges. Did not even think about those things in those days. All films were developed when I got back. No problems at all.
Regards,
Frank

Keeping film during a road trip

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