Keeping all the steps straight - a whine

naramri · Apr 22, 2015

Please, reassure me that this will all very shortly become automatic! Otherwise, I'm film's worst enemy. So far today, I've set up 5 nicely-ish composed shots in the Crown Graphic with 6x9 roll-film back attached.

The results?

I forgot to reset the aperture from 32 to 5.6 (indoor shot, daylight, no flash) - shot ruined
I forgot to advance the film to the next frame between shots - two more ruined
After noting and correcting these problems - I then forgot to pull the dark slide for the next two pictures - two more ruined.

Successfully exposed frames: 0/8. 3 more shots left. Camera put aside, for a re-group.

Mostly, I'm whining. But, if you have a simple mnemonic that would help a beginner keep the steps straight, particularly when using the roll film adapter, I'm all ears!

EDIT: I can't even do arithmetic, apparently. 4 frames of film blown, 5 shots missed? Too many, anyway.

OptiKen · Apr 22, 2015

You sound like me
Sometimes photography can be a very humbling experience

pdeeh · Apr 22, 2015

No, it's always like that, and it will be forever ...

removed account4 · Apr 22, 2015

tie a string around your finger.

the mnemonic might be
WASS

Wind
Aperure
Shutter
Slide

have fun, at least it wasn't sheets of 8x10 chrome film
that is 40$ /exposure

Vaughn · Apr 22, 2015

The only 'cure' I know is to keep doing it!

But I do have created some habits that help -- I always fire the shutter before I pull the darkslide...and before I fire the shutter I check the f/stop and shutter speed. Firing the shutter confirms I have shut the preview (the shutter will not fire if the lens is open) and helps to make sure I have the right speed set.

Using the Rolleicord this past week in Yosemite, I always advanced the film immediately after every exposure to prevent double exposing or skipping a frame (not to say I did not ever do it! I'll find out this week as I develop the film!) I try to do the same with roll-film holders.

pdeeh · Apr 22, 2015

I have a couple of plateholders from the early part of the last century, on which are stencilled the following:

Plate

Lens

Stop

Exposure

Light

Subject

TheTrailTog · Apr 22, 2015

I refer you to...

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

snapguy · Apr 22, 2015

card

A small typewritten card with an outline of what you need to remember can be attached to the back of the camera. A dude skydiving with a Graphic might post -- don't forget to pull the dark slide and the ripcord. Small things are important.

OptiKen · Apr 22, 2015

You are definitely not alone. Often when I purchase an old camera from the bay or a thrift store, I find hand written notes or 3x5 cards with things like, Sunny 16-shutter speed same as ASA and aperture a 16 - cloudy f11 - wind camera before shooting--- things like that. They're always fun to read and give me a bit of a picture of who owned the camera before me.

paul_c5x4 · Apr 22, 2015

naramri said:
But, if you have a simple mnemonic that would help a beginner keep the steps straight, particularly when using the roll film adapter, I'm all ears!.

Practice, practice, and experience.

Even after doing it for a few years with sheet film (never bothered with a roll back), I still make mistakes. Once you have developed a routine, the number of errors decrease

gleaf · Apr 22, 2015

Opps and worse

You are developing new habits.
You learn from error not from wonderful it works events. Those things you already know.
Future planners, we change things folks, know it takes 21 times repeating the new patter to establish it as a habit.

The cost of the learning a new habit is worth it.. go slow and give yourself some space.
Face it the knobs are still not in a familiar place.

But soon they will be old friends you caress to get the image..

shutterfinger · Apr 22, 2015

As you are currently set up:
Meter scene
Set exposure on shutter and cock it
Wind to next frame
Pull darkslide
RF focus
Trip shutter/make exposure
Install darkslide
repeat for the next photo.

Winding the film just before exposure improves film flatness for that exposure.

naramri · Apr 22, 2015

It's heartening to hear I'm not a special case - thanks all, for your tips and ideas. Patience and more experience should cut down on the flubs. If not, well... my husband offered "Here, try this cute Canon Powershot, sweetie." Then he ran. Smart guy.

I'm guessing just switching to sheet film would help, since the process would be somewhat simplified. For now, though, at least the missed opportunities didn't cost $40.00 each!

What is the general consensus about when to advance frames? With my Rolleiflex, I've gotten into the habit of not advancing roll film immediately after a shot - just in case I don't take another picture that session, the shutter isn't sitting there cocked and stressed. But with the Rollei, it's obvious when the film hasn't been advanced to the next frame. The Crown Graphic roll-back is a whole different beast.

Time to practice till it's automatic -

Doremus Scudder · Apr 23, 2015

Naramri,

I've been shooting LF for more than 30 years and still make mistakes like yours occasionally (luckily, not that often, and usually only after not shooting for a longer period - kind of getting used to things again mistakes).

At any rate, I have a mental routine I go through that is somewhat like shutterfinger's. Mine (when using a roll-film back) is:

After composing and focusing, I meter the scene and determine f-stop and aperture. Then I walk around to the front of the camera and do the following while looking back at the lens to make sure everything is functioning properly:

1. close the preview
2. set aperture and shutter speed
3. cock the shutter and fire it (this "warms up the shutter, ensures that the preview is closed and that I've set the right speed)
4. cock the shutter again.

Then, I walk to the back of the camera and:

1. mount the roll film back
2. pull the darkslide
3. make the exposure
4. re-insert the darkslide
5. advance the film*
(5a. repeat exposures if you shoot more than one frame per scene by simply exposing and advancing till you're done)
6. (most important) write down your data in your exposure record: subject, exposure data, filters, and especially, the frame(s) you've exposed!

*Shutterfinger likes to advance his film right before the shot, which is a good idea if film flatness is an issue. For me, however, it is more important that the frame I've just shot gets advanced and out of harm's way so I can't ruin it by accidentally pulling a darkslide, etc. It can sometimes be confusing knowing whether you've advanced or not... when in doubt, always burn a frame and advance. A blank frame is better than a double-exposure.

And, if you are keeping an exposure record (which is your best friend and will help you make improvements faster than anything else), you can always check it to see if you've advanced the film or not

If you do switch to sheet film, then using filmholders comes with its own set of potential errors. Greatest among them is forgetting to flip the darkslide when re-inserting to show that you've exposed that particular sheet, and then later accidentally double-exposing the sheet, thereby ruining two shots. I don't do this much anymore, but it took me a while...

Oh yeah, don't toss your trashed roll of film. You can use it to practice loading the development reel. There's a learning curve there too.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

gone · Apr 23, 2015

It gets better, no worries. As an example, when I first started developing my own film I had a heck of a time keeping things straight. There were lots of pages of papers taped to the kitchen cabinets that I made up to remind me of the steps, procedures measurement equivalents, etc . If someone talked to me while I was doing the developing, nearly always I screwed it up, so I had to shoo the wife and cat outside while i did it. Now I can carry on a conversation, answer the phone, put up items, etc, all the while developing the film. Once I got it down, doing the printing was a walk in the park. It's like everything else in life. You have to concentrate really hard at first to get it right, then you forget about it.

nosmok · Apr 23, 2015

I find it helps to just shoot many exposures in rapid succession, reusing the focus and exposure settings where possible-- almost like the breakdowns on a movie shoot (Master shot to med CUs to over-the-shoulders to insert ECUs). If you don't go from panorama to ECU, and don't continuously need the ground glass for critical focus, then you don't need to muck with the darkslide as much, and your Crown or Speed is just like an overgrown rangefinder. Which is about all I can handle most days.

shutterfinger · Apr 23, 2015

and I won't tell you about the mistakes I made yesterday testing my Miniature Speed Graphic from 1940. I fixed the focal plane shutter a few months back, started on the Kalart type F rangefinder, http://www.graflex.org/helpboard/viewtopic.php?t=6684, repaired a verity of cameras and shutters for others, finished the Type F, serviced a 101 Raptar in Rapax shutter, and mounted a RH10 to the camera.
Metered a scene and exposed with the leaf shutter, reset and made the same exposure with the fps, repeated with subject 2, repeated with subject 3, started subject 4 but forgot to advance the film after the fps exposure, realized I did a double and reshot it then double exposed that shot. I quit and processed the film. Off to scan it. I must get out and shoot more, been behind the repair counter too long.

Steve Smith · Apr 23, 2015

Vaughn said:
Using the Rolleicord this past week in Yosemite, I always advanced the film immediately after every exposure to prevent double exposing or skipping a frame

It won't work wit the Rolleicord, but earlier this week I read a good tip for users of cameras with a window to wind on to the next frame number. After each shot, wind on half way. Then later, if you look at the window and there is no number there, you know you have to wind on.

That should prevent the problem of looking at the number and trying to work out if you need to wind on or if you already have.

Steve.

naramri · Apr 24, 2015

And this is why I became a subscriber! Although it's impossible to put a price on the information and experiences you've generously shared. "Thank you" doesn't cover it. Hmm - now one (or more) of you wise-guys is going to send me an invoice. Heh.

On your advice, I've tucked a small notebook and pencil into the camera bag, and made up a little printed sheet with a checklist of steps to follow. And I'm resigned to wasting a few frames, no huge deal. 8x10 is *probably* not for me, though. Heck, the Agfa box camera shouldn't be for me, either - simple as it is, I keep double exposing a couple of frames per roll.

Hypothesis: This is your brain on digital cameras. Mine, anyway. The ability to think in a deliberate way from step to step when setting up and taking a picture might be weakened after some period of time. Brains become lazy, and need to be re-trained. Patience might also need to be recovered - mine has certainly diminished. It's disconcerting, how quickly this seems to have happened.

So, LF photography as a meditation technique?

pbromaghin · Apr 24, 2015

Waiting for somebody to write the book "Zen and the Art of Large Format Photography".

naramri · Apr 24, 2015

I'd read that book. How about - "Bikram Photography" yoga classes!

DREW WILEY · Apr 24, 2015

Somebody needs to publish an actual checklist of the leading twenty-five procedural errors inherent to large format photography, because
I'm fairly certain I've made every one of those mistakes at some point in time. It's kinda hard standing atop a 12000 ft pass keeping an eye
on an approaching black cloud five minutes away throwing lightning bolts every which-a-way, and timing hard gusts of wind, with burst of
hail, and ... which rock did place my meter and filter on? ... and forgetting to reverse the darkslide after the exposure, as you start running
down the back of the hill with a pebble in your boot.

naramri · Apr 24, 2015

DREW WILEY said:
... It's kinda hard standing atop a 12000 ft pass keeping an eye
on an approaching black cloud five minutes away throwing lightning bolts every which-a-way, and timing hard gusts of wind, with burst of
hail, and ... which rock did place my meter and filter on? ... and forgetting to reverse the darkslide after the exposure, as you start running
down the back of the hill with a pebble in your boot.

... while being pursued by a grizzly."

Hatchetman · Apr 24, 2015

Man, I've given up on large format until I retire. I can't handle all the wasted photos. If its not in taking the shot, its in developing. I've got one or more holders with a light leak I think. The whole process makes me want to jump off a bridge.

DREW WILEY · Apr 24, 2015

I love LF photography, esp 8x10. Slows you down and makes you contemplate what you're actually doing. Relaxing. And lugging the gear around is way more fun than trying to stay in shape by running like a rat on a treadmill in some stinky gym. And when you do land a great
neg, it's really nice to print from. Sheet film is big and stiff. Trying to print the same shot from roll film is a pain in the butt by comparison.
I do it all, so know. There are times you simply don't have time to set up a view camera, esp if you're on vacation with your wife!.... I've never been pursued by a grizzly; but last Fall it was a bit concerned when a mama moose and her calf suddenly popped out of the willows
right next to me and my Ebony view camera. I could have turned the camera into toothpicks, and probably my bones too. We were around
10,000 ft altitude in Wyoming, and I figured any grizzlies would be lower elevation that time of the year where there would be more food.
Probably why the moose wanted her calf up in the high country. Never saw a single bear. But my backpacking buddy was paranoid so carried a bear spray canister on his hip. After we forded a section of river, he set his pack down to dry his feet off. Then, as he was slipping the pack back on, somehow one of the pack straps managed to slide that holster right behind him, pull the grenade pin on the
canister, and tug its trigger all at the same time! About half the can of pepper spray emptied out point-blank all over his back. Fortunately,
at that point we were on the last leg of the trip and only one day from where my truck was parked. But it was a mighty sore day for him.
And that whole pack had to be rinsed out in a lake. All that hassle for a "no bears" scenario. An anecdote he can tell his kids some day.
But I keep kidding him that he better not ever encounter a bear with a taste for Mex-Tex food.

Keeping all the steps straight - a whine

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