KA: Kodachrome "just not practical to try to replicate in today's market."

OldReliable · Apr 28, 2018

E. von Hoegh said:
Errrm.
A bit of advice. The plural is not apostrophised, to wit:
"Chevys suck". "Mopars rule".
The posessive gets the dangler though: "Mopar's big block engines were about the toughest". "Chevy's 283 was my favorit small block".
Oh, and listen to John Bonham.

Damn, I knew I’d make a mistake somewhere!

Also, I love John Bonham! The first time I heard Bonzo’s Montreax off of Coda, I was amazed. His and Buddy’s playing styles are both which I incorporate into my own playing. Him, Ringo, and Buddy were the people who inspired me to get my first Ludwig kit. It’s one of their new Club Date series kits that replicates the sound of drums from the ‘40s and ‘50s. It sounds incredible! Super thick and warm sounding, and it sounds way bigger than it is. I would’ve gone for a big set like Bonham, but trying to lug a 26” kick down a staircase every time I play a gig isn’t gonna work. So I ended up going with a classic smaller jazz configuration, which is the same size as Ringo’s Oyster Black Pearl Ed Sullivan kit. Realizing this, I decided to get them in Black Oyster as a Ringo tribute. The Club Dates that they reintroduced now are just like the original Club Dates from the ‘50s, with the single lug in the center of the drum. I’ve got some pictures I took that I’ll attach, taken on Tri-X of course!

Photo Engineer · Apr 28, 2018

Flavio, I am a poor second or third to those who really know the product(s) in question. In fact, I am not in contention.

PE

alanrockwood · Apr 29, 2018

OldReliable said:
Damn, I knew I’d make a mistake somewhere!

Also, I love John Bonham! The first time I heard Bonzo’s Montreax off of Coda, I was amazed. His and Buddy’s playing styles are both which I incorporate into my own playing. Him, Ringo, and Buddy were the people who inspired me to get my first Ludwig kit. It’s one of their new Club Date series kits that replicates the sound of drums from the ‘40s and ‘50s. It sounds incredible! Super thick and warm sounding, and it sounds way bigger than it is. I would’ve gone for a big set like Bonham, but trying to lug a 26” kick down a staircase every time I play a gig isn’t gonna work. So I ended up going with a classic smaller jazz configuration, which is the same size as Ringo’s Oyster Black Pearl Ed Sullivan kit. Realizing this, I decided to get them in Black Oyster as a Ringo tribute. The Club Dates that they reintroduced now are just like the original Club Dates from the ‘50s, with the single lug in the center of the drum. I’ve got some pictures I took that I’ll attach, taken on Tri-X of course!

Now a few Old School drummers: how about Louie Bellson, Gene Krupa, Joe Morello?

RattyMouse · Apr 29, 2018

BrianShaw said:
WHEN... how about after they show some new Ektachrome. First things, first.

Yep...things are looking awfully late for the new Ektachrome. Now well over 6 months late with no end in sight. Even later for the new Super 8 camera. The execution of this reintroduction has gone about as well as a 6 man company.

flavio81 · Apr 29, 2018

alanrockwood said:
Now a few Old School drummers: how about Louie Bellson, Gene Krupa, Joe Morello?

I love Louie Bellson. So musical! Although my most liked jazz drummer is Art Blakey.

Lionel1972 · Apr 30, 2018

There is a very nice scene in the recent movie"Kodachrome" directed by Marc Raso where Ed Harris plays the drums by himself in his home.
Those Ludwig drums are awesome.

Lionel1972 · Apr 30, 2018

RPC said:
It doesn't matter what they thought. What matters is what they found.

Of course the letter would be ridiculous. It is sarcasm. You would not convince Kodak of anything, just like you are not going to convince anyone here of a Kodachrome revival because your ideas are baseless. Therefore, continuing to post here about it is just as ridiculous. So what is the point?

What I find ridiculous is your insistence to claim you have more evidence on what the future market will be than I have. By definition the future is unknown from both of us. No matter how many times you state my arguments are stupid, it doesn't make any of yours more legitimate about the future.

RPC · Apr 30, 2018

Lionel1972 said:
What I find ridiculous is your insistence to claim you have more evidence on what the future market will be than I have. By definition the future is unknown from both of us. No matter how many times you state my arguments are stupid, it doesn't make any of yours more legitimate about the future.

That issue has already been addressed. Please go back and re-read this thread. I am not going to re-hash it all again. The answers are there if you use some reasoning. That is your problem. You can't reason it out. I am with the majority here in that, you are in the vast minority.

RattyMouse · Apr 30, 2018

Lionel1972 said:
What I find ridiculous is your insistence to claim you have more evidence on what the future market will be than I have. By definition the future is unknown from both of us. No matter how many times you state my arguments are stupid, it doesn't make any of yours more legitimate about the future.

Kodak is in deep financial trouble. They have a payment due next year in excess of 300 million dollars. They do not have this money. Currently Kodak's bond rating is junk status. They cannot borrow more except at exorbitant interest rates.

What makes you think Kodak has the financial strength to resurrect a product so complex and capital intensive as Kodachrome?

What possible reason do you think that Kodak would be successful doing this instead of being financially destroyed?

Kino · Apr 30, 2018

Have we hit "Godwin's Law" yet in this thread?

E. von Hoegh · Apr 30, 2018

Kino said:
Have we hit "Godwin's Law" yet in this thread?

Isn't that the one about
HITLER?

Kino · Apr 30, 2018

We have a winner!

Prest_400 · Apr 30, 2018

On a rather serious note, I've recently seen a couple documentaries about AI and its impact in the (labor based) society.
Basically the point is that once AI gains some traction, it can learn and process almost anything and subsitute humans for it. I think it would be possible to use AI to do some brute research work, or at least serve as a great library and index of context in the traditional photographic industry. ie. its knowhow wouldn't theoretically vanish as human capital happened to.

Photo Engineer said:
Flavio, I am a poor second or third to those who really know the product(s) in question. In fact, I am not in contention.
PE

Again and always Ron, your participation here is priceless. Although I guess it's a bit like a professor overwhelmed of kindergarten kids who all jump and run around screaming "kodachrome!".

Kino said:
Have we hit "Godwin's Law" yet in this thread?

APUG's Godwin law is based on Kodachrome instead. The probability of discussing "Kodachrome" approaches 1 as any thread becomes longer. The equation hasn't been modeled yet but bear in mind there's a multiplier whenever color reversal and/or Kodak is amongst the topics.

ME Super · Apr 30, 2018

But the winner doesn't count, because it was provoked. Try again!

Adolf Hitler wasn't German-born, he was in fact born in Austria-Hungary, and grew up near Linz, Austria. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler. So we can blame an Austrian for starting WWII instead of a German. But I digress.

Slightly more on topic, I'm personally looking forward to trying out some of Kodak's Ektachrome when it comes out. I'm not holding my breath for the reintroduction of Kodachrome.

BrianShaw · Apr 30, 2018

Lets blame digital for starting a war. There ought to be Godwin’s Law v2 - both Kodachrome one digital... just for APUG, or the site formerly known as APUG.

faberryman · Apr 30, 2018

Lionel1972 said:
What I find ridiculous is your insistence to claim you have more evidence on what the future market will be than I have. By definition the future is unknown from both of us. No matter how many times you state my arguments are stupid, it doesn't make any of yours more legitimate about the future.

The future is not entirely unknowable. In fact, most of it is predictable. Else you wouldn't be able to get out of bed, fix your coffee, and get off to work in the morning. A Kodachrome revival is not impossible, just highly unlikely. You yourself admitted as much a few posts back, so I don't know why you are continuing to beat the issue to death.

MattKing · Apr 30, 2018

If you consider that Kodachrome, at its core, was a film and process where development was designed to be done in high volume at a few large, centralized locations, and where critical components of colour are added at time of development, then the question of validity is easily answered - the high volume and centralized components (and potentially the colour addition at time of development) factors make it unlikely in the current marketplace.

RattyMouse · Apr 30, 2018

faberryman said:
The future is not entirely unknowable. In fact, most of it is predictable. Else you wouldn't be able to get out of bed, fix your coffee, and get off to work in the morning. A Kodachrome revival is not impossible, just highly unlikely. You yourself admitted as much a few posts back, so I don't know why you are continuing to beat the issue to death.

Because that's what the Kodachromanistas do. They beat the issue to death. It's all that they can do since they know they will NEVER see Kodachrome return.

Photo Engineer · Apr 30, 2018

There is another Kodachrome documentary done by another group. It is great. Find it!

PE

Lionel1972 · May 1, 2018

RPC said:
That issue has already been addressed. Please go back and re-read this thread. I am not going to re-hash it all again. The answers are there if you use some reasoning. That is your problem. You can't reason it out. I am with the majority here in that, you are in the vast minority.

Since when the majority is always right? Yes I already addressed your wrong claims about my arguments many times (read post #696 again, carefully this time).

Lionel1972 · May 1, 2018

RattyMouse said:
Kodak is in deep financial trouble. They have a payment due next year in excess of 300 million dollars. They do not have this money. Currently Kodak's bond rating is junk status. They cannot borrow more except at exorbitant interest rates.

What makes you think Kodak has the financial strength to resurrect a product so complex and capital intensive as Kodachrome?

What possible reason do you think that Kodak would be successful doing this instead of being financially destroyed?

I never implied Kodak needs to reintroduce Kodachrome right now. So Kodak's bond rating is junk these days, you mean as bad as Apple's bond was a few years ago? What happened then? Apple decided that based on the poor bond rating they couldn't afford R&D on some new products like the iPod and the iPhone?

Lionel1972 · May 1, 2018

faberryman said:
The future is not entirely unknowable. In fact, most of it is predictable. Else you wouldn't be able to get out of bed, fix your coffee, and get off to work in the morning. A Kodachrome revival is not impossible, just highly unlikely. You yourself admitted as much a few posts back, so I don't know why you are continuing to beat the issue to death.

Because some people continue to beat their agenda against any potential reintroduction of Kodachrome to death. Ignoring simple logic and refusing to consider any out of the box reflexion.

RPC · May 1, 2018

Lionel1972 said:
Since when the majority is always right? Yes I already addressed your wrong claims about my arguments many times (read post #696 again, carefully this time).

The above statement and post #696 is a good example of why you need to re-read the thread. As I said in post#156 there is a huge difference in the feasability of bringing back Ektachrome vs. Kodachrome.

And you still do not understand that Kodak is in no position to invest in the return of Kodachrome, and no indication they will be in the future.
You still do not understand the problems connected with the manufacture and processing of Kodachrome and doing it reliably.
You still do not understand that the superiority of E-6 led to a significant downturn in sales of Kodachrome.
You still do not understand that the use of digital finally killed off Kodachrome, and the masses prefer that medium over film.
You still do not understand that the demand necessary to warrant its return and sustain sales is non-existant.
And you still do not understand that there is absolutely no indication that this will EVER CHANGE.

The above statements are based on facts. Your arguments are based on opinions, supposition, and wishful thinking, none of which carries any weight at all. Why don't you give it up?

RattyMouse · May 1, 2018

Lionel1972 said:
I never implied Kodak needs to reintroduce Kodachrome right now. So Kodak's bond rating is junk these days, you mean as bad as Apple's bond was a few years ago? What happened then? Apple decided that based on the poor bond rating they couldn't afford R&D on some new products like the iPod and the iPhone?

Microsoft invested 200 million dollars in Apple. That kept them alive. Who in their right mind is going to invest ANY money in Kodak?

RattyMouse · May 1, 2018

Lionel1972 said:
Because some people continue to beat their agenda against any potential reintroduction of Kodachrome to death. Ignoring simple logic and refusing to consider any out of the box reflexion.

Did you buy your Kash Miner yet?

KA: Kodachrome "just not practical to try to replicate in today's market."

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