K-14 (Kodachrome) and Cibachrome Print Possibility in Berlin, Germany

StorminMatt · May 29, 2009

Fredrik Sandstrom said:
Quality has always been excellent for me; the occasional water spot is the only thing I could complain about.

I can't say I have had alot of water spots from Dwayne's. My only gripe with Dwayne's is the occasional scratched slide.

railwayman3 · May 29, 2009

Robbedoes said:
Maybe all 120 affiliados should drop a question about development at Dwayne's. Maybe this company is willing to give it a try.

It's been discussed many times in previous threads, Dwayne's (or anyone else) just doesn't have the equipment for this size.

As a Kodachrome enthusiast, I regret it as much as anyone, but 120 Kodachrome is long dead and gone.

(Keep shooting 35mm K64, and support Kodak and Dwayne's, so that we don't lose what's left!)

Robbedoes · May 29, 2009

railwayman3 said:
(Keep shooting 35mm K64, and support Kodak and Dwayne's, so that we don't lose what's left!)

Im just starting with this film. Maybe Ill become addictive

Kind of poll:

Scanning Kodachrome 64 (good, bad, excellent)

Ilfochromes from Kodachrome 64 (Nice, awesome, awefull)

Cheers,

Rob

Aurum · May 29, 2009

railwayman3 said:
It's been discussed many times in previous threads, Dwayne's (or anyone else) just doesn't have the equipment for this size.

As a Kodachrome enthusiast, I regret it as much as anyone, but 120 Kodachrome is long dead and gone.

(Keep shooting 35mm K64, and support Kodak and Dwayne's, so that we don't lose what's left!)

Considering we don't have any clue of the exact equipment that our German friend has, its a bit of a moot point until he enlightens us.
He may have got his hands on a K-Lab, in which case AFAIK, that will be 35mm only, or if he's adapting other machinery, that could be a whole different ballgame.
My 10p worth, Dwaynes is geared for volume, so asking them to attempt anything wider than 35mm would be a tall ask. If in Germany, Uli is looking at more bespoke work, it may be more readily considered.

Unfortunately, unless he gets in contact, and gives us an idea of what his plans are, even if only in theory, we are all playing a game of "What if"

nickandre · May 29, 2009

All it would take to process 120 is to hang out over at dwaynes collecting the overflow from the tanks until you had 500 ml of chemistry (probably about 5 minutes) and then setting up a sink line. The main issue is that the film has to be removed from the reel, exposed to a controlled light source, and reloaded no fewer than 2 or 3 times throughout the process, depending on if you load it onto the reel before the remjet removal step. It is quite feasible but doing it without the proper machines (they do not exist anymore) is a major PITA and extremely time consuming.

I have a brick of 120 in my freezer which has been frozen since in date back in 1988 which I'm told is good if you rate it at ISO 50 instead of 64. AFAIK my experiments confirm this. I might give this another shot monday.

It's 99.9% likely that our friend has acquired a K-lab, which would be unfortunate because it's a very expensive paperweight by this point. If he does actually have a larger machine or a special larger machine that can process 120, that could be interesting, but he still has to get/make chemistry for it. Unfortunately, diverting the entire european K14 from dwaynes industry would probably not fare well for kodachrome in general.

railwayman3 · May 31, 2009

Aurum said:
Considering we don't have any clue of the exact equipment that our German friend has, its a bit of a moot point until he enlightens us.
He may have got his hands on a K-Lab, in which case AFAIK, that will be 35mm only, or if he's adapting other machinery, that could be a whole different ballgame.
My 10p worth, Dwaynes is geared for volume, so asking them to attempt anything wider than 35mm would be a tall ask. If in Germany, Uli is looking at more bespoke work, it may be more readily considered.

Unfortunately, unless he gets in contact, and gives us an idea of what his plans are, even if only in theory, we are all playing a game of "What if"

I agree, it's a moot point. But, realistically, there are so many problems, size of machinary, costs of adapting if necessary, obtaining rare chemicals (K-lab chemicals are, I understand, discontinued), costs and expertise of running the Kodachrome process to acceptable quality standards for customers, and obtaining enough business to make the whole thing economic. And this with a film which is discontinued, in limited and finate supply, all of which is many years outdated and, even if frozen, steadily deteriorating.

I was misguided enough to keep a brick of 120 Kodachrome in my freezer, and, much as I'd love to use it again, I wouldn't expect anything beyond experimentation with it, even if Dwaynes or Kodak themselves offered a processing service.

It's fun to speculate and even experiment with old film, but 120 Kodachrome cannot be regarding as a proposition for serious work.

railwayman3 · May 31, 2009

tiberiustibz said:
Unfortunately, diverting the entire european K14 from dwaynes industry would probably not fare well for kodachrome in general.

I know we're only speculating and pipe-dreaming (which is always fun ) but SFAIK all K64 in Europe is sold with the cost of processing-and-mounting by Dwayne's (via Kodak in Switzerland) included. So unless a customer is unhappy with some aspect of Dwayne's service, they're not going to pay someone else a second time for processing.
And anyone (like myself) who is satisfied with the present arrangements, is unlikely to entrust their films to a new unknown service.

Ian Grant · May 31, 2009

Yes but it's already been announced that the existing pre-paid service won't be honoured after a given cut off date. This is just another twist in the final phase out of Kodachrome. No new film will be coated.

Ian

railwayman3 · May 31, 2009

Ian Grant said:
Yes but it's already been announced that the existing pre-paid service won't be honoured after a given cut off date. This is just another twist in the final phase out of Kodachrome. No new film will be coated.

Ian

Isn't that the US mailers, purchased separately to the film?

And can you quote the source of the definitive information that no new film will be coated? (You may be right, of course, but I've seen nothing official?)

Aurum · May 31, 2009

Ian Grant said:
Yes but it's already been announced that the existing pre-paid service won't be honoured after a given cut off date. This is just another twist in the final phase out of Kodachrome. No new film will be coated.

Ian

I thought that was the buy separately mailers for the the North American markets, that don't supply K64 process paid off the shelf, or have I missed something here?

nickandre · May 31, 2009

There was another coating run a month ago. It's still being coated. My film expires in mid-2010.

The prepaid processing that comes with all Kodachrome sold outside the US does not expire, though the mailers did.

Ian Grant · May 31, 2009

I read it as all pre paid mailers, but I could be wrong.

No new coating is an informed guess, I have spoken to friends in the US who used to work at Kodak and still have friends there, (not Ron/PE BTW).

I had intended to shoot some Kodachrome when I was I the UK recently but it was too expensive and very uneconomic at the prices in Jessops/Boots so I gave it a miss.

Ian

Ian Grant · May 31, 2009

tiberiustibz said:
There was another coating run a month ago. It's still being coated. My film expires in mid-2010.

The prepaid processing that comes with all Kodachrome sold outside the US does not expire, though the mailers did.

That's not a coating run it's just a new batch from the cold store, every so often the master roll is wheeled out a small bit confectioned and sold, in a very limited market place.

Ian

railwayman3 · May 31, 2009

Ian Grant said:
I had intended to shoot some Kodachrome when I was I the UK recently but it was too expensive and very uneconomic at the prices in Jessops/Boots so I gave it a miss.

Ian

Boots have for some months been offering 3 films for the price of 2. At that
K64 process paid works out at just under £8.50 per film (£25.42 for 3, Sheffield, 26th May), which I think works out about as cheap as any slide film with professional processing.
(Oh, nearly forgot, an additional £1 worth of Advantage Card points against next visit....plus a voucher for half-price sunglasses! )

sinnlicht · Jun 12, 2009

Uli Hagel is unable to come through.

Regrettably Uli has renounced his intention, citing his uncertainty of being able to guarantee quality control. Many thanks for your contributions.

Richard

stealthman_1 · Jun 14, 2009

railwayman3 said:
And this with a film which is discontinued, in limited and finate supply, all of which is many years outdated and, even if frozen, steadily deteriorating.

Well if my recent success with two different rolls of Ektar 25 which expired in 1992 are any indication, I don't think that deterioration amounts to a hill of beans. I think the key to anyone being vaguely successful (financially) if they can do 120 PKR is that the target audience has a decent window of time to shoot the film, a reasonable assurance it will be worth their effort, and cost for processing isn't obscenely prohibitive. Since people are regularly paying $30 to $50 per roll for 135 HIE, I would think processing below $30 would be somewhat palatable.

EASmithV · Jun 17, 2009

sinnlicht said:
Regrettably Uli has renounced his intention, citing his uncertainty of being able to guarantee quality control. Many thanks for your contributions.

Richard

damnation

dk_samurai · Jun 17, 2009

EASmithV said:
damnation

Indeed!!!

pentaxuser · Jun 17, 2009

sinnlicht said:
Regrettably Uli has renounced his intention, citing his uncertainty of being able to guarantee quality control. Many thanks for your contributions.

Richard

I take it from this statement that Uli had already amassed all the necessary equipmentat considerable expense? Can you say what factors made him uncertain of guaranteeing quality control? A summary of how far he got with the project would be interesting. It's a pity that his renouncing of his intention after exciting a lot on interest is simply a one line statement and without any direct contribution from Uli on his thoughts on his eventual decision to abandon the project.

I wonder what he is going to do with all the equipment which I presume he has obtained at considerable expense to prepare for the establishment of a Kodachtrome lab? Is he now thousands of euros out of pocket?

It's always interesting to hear about business plans for the continuation of an analogue process and the background of those prepared to risk money on such ventures be he a chemist/ engineer or simple entrepreneur with an idea

Thanks

pentaxuser

Ian Grant · Jun 17, 2009

pentaxuser, it's a long time since I heard your Dulcet Daventry accent

Reality is how could any lab produce a business plan to invest in outdated equipment to process a film that's apparently no longer manufactured, although there's still uncut warehoused film.

However if a de-commissioned processing line was available at a scrap/knock-down price and a chemist was available to bypass relying totally onKodak there might be a short window of opportunity.

Today I was reading about Dupont's Bi-pack Colour film 1934/5 very interesting as it actually use two films in the same 35mm cassette, emulsion to emulsion, and they went through the film path/pressure plate of Leica's, Contax's and Exacta's etc with no problems, Kodachrome also started as a Bipack film and unfortunately the Tri-pack will soon join other obsolete processes in the history of Photography.

Ian

pentaxuser · Jun 17, 2009

Thanks Ian. I am just curious as to the business plan and presumably the amount of planning and expenditure that went in to the projectonly then just to see it suddenly stopped with a one line response. Any investment in an analogue process with such an uncertain future is certainly a brave act given what I have read on this thread about the difficulties.

Maybe it's programmes like the Dragon's Den on BBC that has given me interest in the background to entrepreneurs' thinking and I'd welcome some more information. Pity that we can't hear directly from Uli, whom I presume to be the initiator of the idea with Sinnlicht as his agent/PR man but if Uli doesn't want to enlighten us then I am sure that more than just me would welcome a short history and background to Uli's idea from the OP.

Uli may well be known in Germany for his Kodachrome work and lab in Berlin, I think, but I know nothing about him and would welcome any information about another source of analogue photography service. APUG may well represent the main section of analogue users in the world these days and Uli or Sinnlicht presumably thought likewise as it seems as if the size of the APUG response was to be the main determinant in whether the project went ahead but that changed when it seems that a technical issue of not being able to guarantee Quality Control became the reason for the idea's non initiation.

It's all speculation on my part and maybe those others on APUG who are curious and will remain so unless Sinnlicht can add to his one line explanation of the idea's "death"

pentaxuser

K-14 (Kodachrome) and Cibachrome Print Possibility in Berlin, Germany

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