Just tried developing film (4x5) for the first time

trondsi · Oct 12, 2021

Hello there!
I have been handing my development to a lab for years, but I got a Paterson tank for my birthday, with a matching Mod54 4x5 insert.

My film is Ilford Delta 100 and developer is Lmax (T-max), with Kodafix fixer. That is literally all I have

I have some issues: First off, the film sheets seem to shift when I am developing, sometimes touching each other or dropping out of the slot altogether. I have never filled the whole thing with six sheets though, so maybe it works better that way? Or maybe I agitating the tank too vigorously?

I have some small pinholes in the darker areas of the negative (bright sky) are these likely dust particles that got washed off?

Finally some images had some vague blotchy areas. I also don't have a squeegee, maybe this is water drops that dried?

greg zinselmeier · Oct 12, 2021

Great strides you are making. My first time my sheets all fell out. Anyway. No squeegee . Just photo flow and hang diagonally so water moves to one corner and let dry in an environment that is not dusty.

trondsi · Oct 12, 2021

Photo flow? Is that something I add to the final rinse?

absalom1951 · Oct 12, 2021

Instead of photo flow i have used distilled water for years and have had no problems.

Dwayne Martin · Oct 12, 2021

trondsi said:
Photo flow? Is that something I add to the final rinse?

Photo flow is a very mild detergent that helps the water to dry without spotting. I used photo flow and distilled for years now just filtered and photo flow and it does the same job for me. Dust in the air where you hang them to dry is a big problem so find a place where there is no air movement, I’ve had lots of trouble with dust sticking to my negs as they dry, then it’s really hard to fix once the emulsion is dry..

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 12, 2021

If you have pinholes in the negative, they are either from tiny dust particles that settled on the film when you first loaded the film in the holders, or from stop bath... What are you using for stop bath? A photo up close of the negative(s) may be helpful.

Bill Burk · Oct 12, 2021

Andrew O'Neill said:
If you have pinholes in the negative, they are either from tiny dust particles that settled on the film when you first loaded the film in the holders, or from stop bath... What are you using for stop bath? A photo up close of the negative(s) may be helpful.

Most of the time I believe my white specks were dust when taking pictures. I never have specks on 35mm so it’s not likely to be stop bath bursting emulsion due to abrupt change from alkaline to acid. I just think that’s rare, dust is common.

trondsi · Oct 12, 2021

This is one of the better ones. I dried it like a champ by holding it in one corner and shaking

trondsi · Oct 12, 2021

Here’s another that I left leaning against paper to dry

trondsi · Oct 12, 2021

Notice the uneven sky area

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 12, 2021

That's from dust settling on the film when loading in the holder. Go to the hardware store and buy some tac rags to wipe down your holders. Also buy a can of canned air and give the film a quick blast before closing the slide. Clean the inside of your camera. Lots of dust can gather inside the bellows. Lastly wipe down your film loading area with a clean, damp cloth. If the air is super dry where you are, consider a humidifier, or just plug in a kettle.

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 12, 2021

I'm not sure what the scratches are from though... could be from your tank system. Are you working in a darkroom or using a changing bag to load your film holders and developing tank? Changing bags can had a lot of dust and lint inside...

trondsi · Oct 12, 2021

Thanks! It is very dry here. The scratches are mostly just the light in the photo though, those are barely visible in real life.

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 12, 2021

Bill Burk said:
Most of the time I believe my white specks were dust when taking pictures. I never have specks on 35mm so it’s not likely to be stop bath bursting emulsion due to abrupt change from alkaline to acid. I just think that’s rare, dust is common.

Not if the pinholes are perfectly round as is not the case here. Before we could actually see the negatives, OP described them as pinholes. First thing that comes to my mind is stop bath. If I'm not careful this can happen to me with HIE (I still have a few sheets left) and because of that possibility, I don't use an acid stop bath. It also has happened to me with Kodak Ektascan xray film.

mshchem · Oct 12, 2021

greg zinselmeier · Oct 12, 2021

As to tools and techniques for developing 4x5. I now use STainless Steele hangers. Kodak style. I use four for 1 liter. I made my boxes out of acrylic to develop , stop, fix, etc. personally I like hangers. But some like tray development.

trondsi · Oct 13, 2021

By the way, my stop bath is just pure water.

koraks · Oct 13, 2021

trondsi said:
First off, the film sheets seem to shift when I am developing, sometimes touching each other or dropping out of the slot altogether. I have never filled the whole thing with six sheets though, so maybe it works better that way? Or maybe I agitating the tank too vigorously?

Practice loading the MOD54 in normal light so you can see what you're doing. There's a bit of a trick to correctly positioning the sheets. It's easy to have them stick out too far at the top or the bottom and then they'll scrape against each other and the holder during agitation. I think this explains in part your scratches.

IME the sheets never sit very solidly in the holder, so agitation is best done with care. Agitation doesn't have to be violent to be effective, fortunately, so it's not a problem. Just be gentle.

As to drying the film - waving it around sounds like a good way to get dust onto it Put up a clothes line in a room with little traffic, and suspend the sheets with something like a clothespin or a clamp to a corner.

Photoflo or another wetting agent can indeed help, but frankly I don't think it's going to solve any of the problems you have described and shown so far. Moreover I find wetting agent to be far less necessary/critical with sheet film and 120 roll film than with 135 film (with its shiny backside).

Paul Howell · Oct 13, 2021

I agree that OP issues are not related to spotting. Using a a wetting agent depends on how hard OP's tap water is. Here in the American Southwest, our water is really hard, I've tired plane tap water, tap water and Photoflow, distilled water, and distilled water photoflow, and found that distilled or well filtered water with photoflow works best.

trondsi · Oct 13, 2021

On a side note: since so far I've been developing two sheets at a time (don't want to ruin six photos if I mess up), but the tank holds one liter, I think it's a waste to throw away the developer and fixer every time. So I have put the mixtures in bottles with labels. I have some info on how long I can use the fixer (50 sheets apparently), but what about the developer?

Ian C · Oct 13, 2021

One liter of Kodak T-Max Developer used at the standard 1 + 4 (concentrate + water) ratio has the capacity to develop 12.7 rolls or 50.7 4” x 5” sheets. So 50 or 51 sheets is approximately the capacity of a liter at 1 + 4 concentration.

See Time Compensation page 9 in the J-86 PDF

J86.fm (kodakalaris.com)

Determine the normal developing time N from temperature/time chart for your film and T-Max developer. Develop the first 1/3rd of capacity (16-17 sheets per liter) at time N.

Develop the second 1/3 of capacity at time N + 1 minutes.

Develop the last 1/3rd of capacity at time N + 2 minutes, and then discard the exhausted developer.

This should give you negatives of approximately the same density and the full rated capacity.

Donald Qualls · Oct 13, 2021

There are three excellent solutions to a tank that holds too much liquid: get a smaller tank (Stearman Press makes a nice one for 4x5, only needs IIRC about 450 ml), use a cheaper developer (Rodinal derivatives at 1+49, or for even less you can make your own Rodinal-alike developer from acetaminophen, drain opener, and sodium sulfite), or use a replenished or reusable developer.

In the latter category, Cinestill Df96 is a monobath (developer and fixer in one bottle) and is rated as reusable for up to 16 films, though you might find you lose enough volume to cause problems before then if you need a full liter to cover your film. D-76 has instructions on how much to extend times with reuse, up to (IIRC) 8 rolls in a liter of stock solution. Xtol (and its clones) self-replenishes, with a little stock being added to the storage each process (in your case, with half an 8x10 equivalent, a mere 35 ml per tank), and IMO is the best way to use a large tank with small film area.

trondsi · Oct 13, 2021

Ian C said:
One liter of Kodak T-Max Developer used at the standard 1 + 4 (concentrate + water) ratio has the capacity to develop 12.7 rolls or 50.7 4” x 5” sheets. So 50 or 51 sheets is approximately the capacity of a liter at 1 + 4 concentration.

See Time Compensation page 9 in the J-86 PDF

J86.fm (kodakalaris.com)

Determine the normal developing time N from temperature/time chart for your film and T-Max developer. Develop the first 1/3rd of capacity (16-17 sheets per liter) at time N.

Develop the second 1/3 of capacity at time N + 1 minutes.

Develop the last 1/3rd of capacity at time N + 2 minutes, and then discard the exhausted developer.

This should give you negatives of approximately the same density and the full rated capacity.

Very useful info, many thanks!

Two23 · Oct 13, 2021

absalom1951 said:
Instead of photo flow i have used distilled water for years and have had no problems.

That's what I use--distilled water for a quick final rinse.

Kent in SD

Dwayne Martin · Oct 13, 2021

Paul Howell said:
I agree that OP issues are not related to spotting. Using a a wetting agent depends on how hard OP's tap water is. Here in the American Southwest, our water is really hard, I've tired plane tap water, tap water and Photoflow, distilled water, and distilled water photoflow, and found that distilled or well filtered water with photoflow works best.

I have had exactly the same experience here in SW Florida.

Just tried developing film (4x5) for the first time

trondsi

greg zinselmeier

trondsi

absalom1951

Dwayne Martin

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator

Bill Burk

trondsi

trondsi

Attachments

trondsi

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator

trondsi

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator

mshchem

greg zinselmeier

trondsi

koraks

Moderator

Paul Howell

trondsi

Ian C

Donald Qualls

trondsi

Two23

Dwayne Martin

Just tried developing film (4x5) for the first time

Moderator

Attachments

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency