just starting...

Looking ahead to having a darkroom at my house in the next 12 months:
Would I be correct in thinking that it is more important for me to stick to the same set of chemicals than to worry about which ones might be "better".?
I am new to all this.....just taking a photo class at my local college.....and I am in process of gathering all the stuff.
Trays
Timer
Enlarger
Chemicals
Books
This Forum
etc etc
Would using Adox Rodinal to develop film, and pretty much Ilford chemicals for everything else be as good a plan as any.?
I have no reasons other than prices and reading reviews at B&H, Freestyle, The Internet. We use Ilford Multi-grade, RC, Pearl paper at school and I had just planned to stick with that.
Are the above Papers/Chemicals as good a place to start as any.? Maybe even for a few years before I start to worry about what might be "better" .......before I need to think about fiber papers and different chemicals.?
I need the (consistent) time to learn the skills first...right.?
Thank You
if I missed any obvious links/sticky's (that deal with all this) I apologize

Great place to start.

I use the some Oriental and some Ilford RC paper, along with mostly Kodak chemicals.

Local availability may be a reason to investigate alternatives.

Your choice of film developer and other chemicals is one that I would not contest. The paper Ilford MG is also regarded here in UK as the market leader, however I find it relatively slow - i.e. not very sensitive. If you can find Kentmere which odly enough, is also now owned/produced by Ilford is at least one stop faster and I find about one grade harder without any filtration. The surfaces are Glossy, lustre (similar to Ilford Pearl) and I think Matt. In UK it is also signifcantly cheaper than Ilford. The tone is 'cool' whereas Ilford will show a tone as warm(ish)

The hardware in the darkroom is a personal choice, but whatever you do don't skimp on the enlarger lens. Go for the best you can find. I am assuming that you will be using 35mm so the Nikon 50mm/F2.8 although no longer made is damn good and are readily available second hand. The Rodenstock Rodagon equivalent is still being made and although expensive is the Holy Grail as far as enlarging lenses go. If you can find one, the 50mm F2.8 APO version is to die for. These are also made in 80mm/F5.6 focal lengths to cover up to 6x7 negative sizes.

That''s the best approach. Stick to the chemicals and materials you are familiar and comfortable with, then you can experiment later on if you want to.
Use materials that are fairly low-cost and available to you and develop consistency in your processes. Download manufacturer's data sheets for chemicals/film/paper and use them as your reference and guide.

I learned in High School over 35 years ago with Tri-X and D-76, and I still use those for a large percentage of my photography. Liquid developers like Rodinal and HC-110 are very convenient to use and work just as well. The difference in results are not significant. Kodak no longer makes paper, so Ilford MG RC works for me for contact sheets, test prints and general use.. RC papers are easy to work with and dry fast and flat. I now use fiber paper for my final "fine" prints and work I want to mount. Fiber is easier to tone and bleach if needed, but I first honed my skills on RC paper for years.

Printing is really where you can develop your skills in the darkroom and make your final image look like what you envisioned. Just start with consistent, well-exposed negatives and you will be surprised at what you can create in the printing stage. Check out books by David Vestal, Bruce Barnbaum, Ansel Adams' "The Negative" and "The Print", among many others. Study the work of photographers you admire. This guy Omar in Turkey has some great darkroom articles hosted at The Online Darkroom at: http://www.theonlinedarkroom.com/p/omars-darkroom-posts.html . Also, David at TwelveSmallSquares has some good tutorials here: Dead Link Removed .

Traditional darkroom work really is a craft, and you'll never stop learning new techniques. Get some good music in your darkroom - you'll be spending a lot of time in there.

Have Fun!

Would I be correct in thinking that it is more important for me to stick to the same set of chemicals than to worry about which ones might be "better".?

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Excellent ! And follow the manufacturer's recommendations, meaning leave stand development, pushed development (read: undexposed film), and other exotic stuff to those who enjoy it.

Ilford Multi-grade, RC, Pearl paper at school and I had just planned to stick with that.

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Also an excellent choice. Goal being to learn (from mistakes) by printing a large nuber of photos; RC is faster, and pearl (#44) avoids the plasticky look of RC glossy. I was going to suggest Foma, but I see that in the US it's as expensive as Ilford. Keep in mind that Multigrade IV hardly reacts to selenium toning; Fomaspeed does better in that respect; probably not a major element of decision for you right now.

Would using Adox Rodinal to develop film,...

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That's the only point with which I don't fully agree. Rodinal is a wonderful product; (I use it myself) but not really a general-purpose, middle-of-the road developer (waiting for the flak from the fanclub), especially if you intend to shoot 400ISO film (again, dissenters shouting up). I would suggest D-76 or HC-110, the latter having the convenience of easy preparation and "infinite" shelf life (now finishing a bottle of concentrate started 8 years ago), and the drawback of a higher initial investment for the bottle of concentrate. Just keep in mind that the official Kodak time for 400TX/HC-110/dilB is plain wrong (only that combo); google...

You don't say what type of subject you intend to shoot, nor with what film, but you should be OK with "standard" choices.

Last bit of advice to someone who starts developing his own. Last step of negative development: dip in Photo-flo or equivalent at manufacturer's recommended dilution, diluted in distilled or de-ionized water. Lift and hang in a dsut-free place. Do not wipe film!.

Thanks for the Advice/Encouragement.
Yeah...guess I left out a few things.
35mm.
Black and White
Mostly with a Canon A-1 and Nikon F2, and just shooting full manual with the A-1.
Delta 100 and FP4-125
I picked Rodinal just because so many guys use it, but I could just as easily start with one of the Ilford concentrates:
Ilfosol 3
DDX
Ilfotec HC
Mostly interested in something that will keep for a month or two if I mix a gallon...and also that it will last as a concentrate once the bottle is open.
Thanks

btw.....being in Drought Ridden California, my instructor has us use Hypo-Clear with the film. He says it aids in saving water by reducing the wash time. For the last step, he has taught us to use distilled water with a drop or two of Foto-Flo

No developer is "better", just different. For some odd reason, a couple of the more popular ones have been around the longest, D-76 dates from the 1920's and Rodinal is older than that.

The differences between any developer formula are mostly grain and film speed, and to some extent contrast in various tonal ranges. What works "best" is extremely subjective.
What is best is to pick one, use it until you really understand all of its nuances. And then experiment to see whether or not it suites your vision better or worse than something else might.

If you'd like an addition to your list, Kodak HC-110 also keeps well after opening (far longer than a month). I don't use it very much, my opened bottle is 5+ years old.

Your instructor is correct, hypo-clear will allow you reduce wash times. The greatest benefit is with fiber based papers which must wash for as much as an hour or more without it.

CMoore said:

Thanks for the Advice/Encouragement.
Yeah...guess I left out a few things.
35mm.
Black and White
Mostly with a Canon A-1 and Nikon F2, and just shooting full manual with the A-1.
Delta 100 and FP4-125
I picked Rodinal just because so many guys use it, but I could just as easily start with one of the Ilford concentrates:
Ilfosol 3
DDX
Ilfotec HC
Mostly interested in something that will keep for a month or two if I mix a gallon...and also that it will last as a concentrate once the bottle is open.
Thanks

btw.....being in Drought Ridden California, my instructor has us use Hypo-Clear with the film. He says it aids in saving water by reducing the wash time. For the last step, he has taught us to use distilled water with a drop or two of Foto-Flo

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Couple of points:

In most cases, if you are going to use a developer that is designed to be mixed up from liquid concentrate, you should mix up what you intend to use just before you use it. Most developers of that type don't last for long after mixing to working strength. So if you do intend to proceed that way, check the manufacturers' information first.

And Photo-flo is fairly finicky. The difference between one drop and two drops and three drops of concentrate can easily be the difference between too little, just right and too much.

I would suggest starting with one drop in a litre of distilled water. Increase to two drops if you see water beading on the film, increase to two drops.

And whatever you do, don't mix up a big batch of working solution of Photo-flo with the intention of keeping it around for a while - it is a great environment for mould.

jimjm said:

That''s the best approach. Stick to the chemicals and materials you are familiar and comfortable with, then you can experiment later on if you want to.
Use materials that are fairly low-cost and available to you and develop consistency in your processes. Download manufacturer's data sheets for chemicals/film/paper and use them as your reference and guide.

Click to expand...

Keep it simple and learn one camera, one film and one developer. Play with the printing to learn the full range of the first three.

I think you are making the right choices.... keep it simple and consistent and enjoy the learning!
Regarding trays.... make sure you get your trays 1 size larger than the prints you plan to make. E.g.: if you plan to print on 20x25cm (8x10 inch) then get trays 24X30cm. It's nice to have some wiggle room in the tray to move paper around and pick up the print easily.
And get plenty of them....
1. developer
2. stop bath or water
3. fix
4. quick rinse
5. hypo clearing agent
6. final wash..... here you'd best choose an even larger tray since there may be multiple prints washing
7. one extra tray, for example to put in a test strip or print you want to see in white light while it's still wet; always nice to have

Have fun!

10-4
Thanks Again

One other thing I would suggest is to try out some fiberbase paper instead of doing everything on RC paper. I know that some people think otherwise, but I hate the look of RC paper compared to fiberbase. Using the excuse of "I'm just learning and RC paper is fine" means that you're compromising the final look of your prints. If cost is a concern, go to Freestyle Photo and get a box of Arista variable contrast fiberbase paper. It's the east expensive and in my opinion looks much better than RC paper.

All the rest of the advice you are getting is right on.

Where in California are you located. There a bunch of us darkroom printers here who would be glad to help you more.

Dan

Do you need closer than my Zip Code.?
I am in Suisun City..... on Hwy 12, a glorious 5 famous miles from the Budweiser Plant
I DO hear what you are saying about FB paper. From what I have read "most" of you guys prefer it, and I can understand (more or less) why.
At this point, I have so much to learn, I just feel that RC Paper is the way to go. I am not Ansel Adams, none of my frames will have any great import. I will not be mounting or framing anything for a while.
Thank You

I prefer fiber paper to RC paper, but if I want to practice or experiment a lot I will use RC paper until I get what I want and then switch to fiber paper. This is especially so if I am dealing with a difficult negative that will require a lot of prints to figure out every thing that needs to be done.

I would be inclined to use D76 because its a very good developer and is cheap. And for prints Ilford Bromophen is a very good developer for neutral tones and warmer tones too if you dilute it to 1+10 and use longer print development times. i.e. it will do most of what you want and is also quite cheap. You do need to mix these from powders to a stock solution but its worth it.