Just Starting on Darkroom Printing - Papers/Chemicals Advice !!

[Brian M Harris]

Hi I have a darkroom "package" being shipped to me, should arrive in the next few days. This includes a Durst 707 Colour Enlarger, Schneider Lenses for 35mm and 6X7 along with required major items needed.

The smaller items I will pick up once I work out what I actually have. I have developing my own negatives in black and white/colour up to 4x5 for about 3 years. Printing is a progression which I am looking forward too, but I am a bit of newbie to the printing side.

I will be concentrating on black and white printing, and dont want to complicate things. I shoot mainly portraits, street photography and some landscapes. In the main I will be concentrating on Portraits and probably Landscapes for the printing.

My question is darkroom paper, I have been advised to keep away from fibre paper until I have really got the hang of this, and resin coated was recommended. Ilford items are readily available for me I would like to keep things simple so any suggestions on paper types a i am a bit confused, in the different types.

I was looking at Ilford Multigrades Papers (yes I will get the filters and use the white light only), but I have also been told that I dont need the filters as adjusting the magenta/yellow on the colour enlarger will do the same thing. The filter holder is below the lens on the Durst 707. I think I might have been better off getting an enlarger with the filter holder below the light and above then lens or I am wrong on this.

Any advice/pointers would be appreciated.

Thanks

Brian

 

[koraks]

This is fairly likely to spark a very long and potentially endless debate (or rather, continue the existing debate), but I for myself like to keep things simple, so I'll just share my personal experience and leave it up to you to decide how deep you want to dive into all this.

Firstly, for starting out, RC paper is just fine. Ilford is obviously also fine, and so are various other brands. Any neutral-tone RC paper, whether it is glossy, matte, pearl or whatever surface finish you can get your hands on is going to work just fine.

I was looking at Ilford Multigrades Papers (yes I will get the filters and use the white light only), but I have also been told that I dont need the filters as adjusting the magenta/yellow on the colour enlarger will do the same thing.

For all intents and purposes, yes. Some have found that they can't get the maximum contrast out of the paper (usually grade 5) using the magenta filtering of a color head, but YMMV. I personally have never experienced practical problems with this, and to me, it matters if I can get the print I need, and not if I'm able to achieve the theoretical maximum with my setup. So by all means give the Y/M filtration a go. If you run out of contrast, see if a blue filter or a genuine Ilford Multigrade #5 filter works better than the maximum magenta setting on your color head. Doesn't hurt to try if you have the filters anyway.
I'd say just do whatever works out best in practice for you. I've made many fine (to my eyes) B&W prints with color heads, Multigrade filters, cheap Foma filters or an Ilford 500 head. Guess what - it all worked just fine.

The filter holder is below the lens on the Durst 707. I think I might have been better off getting an enlarger with the filter holder below the light and above then lens or I am wrong on this.

As long as your filters are reasonably clean, I don't expect you'll run into any problems with below-the-lens filters. Sure, there will be a minor addition of flare/loss or contrast, and heavily polluted or scratched filters will at some point degrade image quality. But in practice, you get away with more than you'd expect, especially if you're starting out and working on getting your first images onto paper.

Later on once you start optimizing your workflow, you may find some of the things I've said above debatable or undesirable for your personal approach. That's OK, but there are other things besides positioning of the filters and the use of filters vs. color heads that have a more profound impact on your darkroom experience. Sometimes they are the little practical things that people don't talk about all that much, such as which kind of timer you prefer to use, what kind of developing trays, how you go about cutting/tearing test strips and what size test strips you use, etc. etc. etc. etc. And sometimes they are very essential things that do get a lot of (well-deserved) attention, such as how to get just the right contrast and tonal scale in your negative to make it easy to get a nice print. All these things, in my experience, are much more relevant than the somewhat more academic (dare I say it) debate about filter positioning and color head vs. multigrade filter use for B&W.

 

[Kino]

I would still get the Ilford MG Filters and avoid the color head to start. https://www.freestylephoto.biz/762617-Ilford-Multigrade-Filter-Set-Under-the-Lens-Mounted-Kit

The color head will come in handy later when you get into color or more comfortable with filtration in b&w.

I'd use Illford MGIV RC Deluxe - Glossy to start printing.

My 2 cents...

 

[mshchem]

Hi I have a darkroom "package" being shipped to me, should arrive in the next few days. This includes a Durst 707 Colour Enlarger, Schneider Lenses for 35mm and 6X7 along with required major items needed.

The smaller items I will pick up once I work out what I actually have. I have developing my own negatives in black and white/colour up to 4x5 for about 3 years. Printing is a progression which I am looking forward too, but I am a bit of newbie to the printing side.

I will be concentrating on black and white printing, and dont want to complicate things. I shoot mainly portraits, street photography and some landscapes. In the main I will be concentrating on Portraits and probably Landscapes for the printing.

My question is darkroom paper, I have been advised to keep away from fibre paper until I have really got the hang of this, and resin coated was recommended. Ilford items are readily available for me I would like to keep things simple so any suggestions on paper types a i am a bit confused, in the different types.

I was looking at Ilford Multigrades Papers (yes I will get the filters and use the white light only), but I have also been told that I dont need the filters as adjusting the magenta/yellow on the colour enlarger will do the same thing. The filter holder is below the lens on the Durst 707. I think I might have been better off getting an enlarger with the filter holder below the light and above then lens or I am wrong on this.

Any advice/pointers would be appreciated.

Thanks

Brian

Go to Ilfordphoto.com you can find controlling contrast information. If your enlarger has a dichroic colorhead it's super easy to control contrast with a combination of Y and M filtration. I have done this for years.

Definitely start with RC paper. I would buy Ilford MGIV 25 sheets of 5x7 Pearl surface. If you want to learn, learn with smaller prints.

For developer I would start with a Ilford liquid developer. Follow the Ilford instructions. The closer you follow Ilford's directions the better off you will be.

Fibre paper is a pain in the butt. However it's the ultimate way to make a fine print. You can get 95% of the way with RC. After the first 100 sheets incorporate Selenium toner into your work flow. You will see blacker blacks more details. Don't complicate things at first. Follow the instructions from Ilford.

 

[jimjm]

The advantage of RC paper over FB is shorter development, wash and drying times. Plus it dries flat without any extra effort on your part. Image quality is excellent, so I wouldn't necessarily discount it if you want "final" prints suitable for framing. I prefer Ilford MG RC Pearl finish over glossy, as I find the glossy paper to be a bit too shiny for my taste. If you eventually want to start toning or spotting prints, then FB paper would be more appropriate.

I agree Ilford liquid developer/stop/fix chemicals are really easy to use and dependable.

I first started out with above-the-lens Ilford MG filters, but having a dichroic filter head is much easier to use IMHO. Much better for split-grade printing, especially if dodging and burning using different grades. Ilford has a PDF describing filtration settings for different types of color heads.

 

[removedacct1]

Here is one potential reason to buy the Ilford Multigrade filters new, as opposed to using the color head filtration: depending on the age and condition of the enlarger, the filters in the color head may have faded, so dialing in precise values might not be possible. I have a color head on my Beseler 23CII, and the filters have faded significantly, so I don't use them for contrast control when printing with multigrade type papers.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Firstly, you can use your color head for VC contrast filtration just fine. Get and read the document at this link: https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Contrast-control-for-Ilford-Multigrade.pdf . It will give you all the info you need. I only switch to filters when I can't get enough contrast out of my color heads. Then I'll use the #5 filter or even a #47 blue filter. I haven't needed to do this in years... If you develop your negatives correctly, you'll find the contrast range available from your color head just fine. IM-HO, fiddling with filters is a PITA.

I hate RC paper, but agree that RC is good to start on. Fiber-base paper has it's own set of problems: longer washing, curling, etc., etc., but I think it's the only way to go for exhibition prints. Start with RC and then switch if you feel like it.

Get yourself a standard print developer like Dektol or Bromophen and use it according to directions. In 95% of my work, I never need more than that. You can experiment with more esoteric developers after you've got the basics down.

Do use a stop bath!

Any of the rapid fixers from just about any manufacturer will work just fine. I use Ilford Hypam or Rapid Fixer. With RC paper, fixing times are short and fixing is easy. If and when you decide to move to fiber-base paper, fixation becomes more of an issue. Check back here when you're ready for that.

Ilford has a ton of information and tech sheets on their website. Get the ones relating to print developing (especially the tech sheets for fixer) and read and digest them. That will answer 99% of your questions before you have them and give you a huge shot of confidence for starting out.

If you feel like toning your prints, read up on the various toners. Selenium toning is the easiest and the least "artsy" of the bunch; it's all I ever do in the way of toning. I've posted a lot here and on the LF forum about how to use selenium toner; Google me and selenium.

Best,

Doremus

 

[jim10219]

I started with fiber. If you want to print fiber, then buy fiber. With all of the videos on YouTube and other online resources, it shouldn't take you more than one or two attempts to get the hang of printing. You won't be an expert right away, but you should be able to make a decent looking print pretty easily these days if you do your research ahead of time. I don't think you need to waste money on RC paper unless you really want to print RC (they do have certain advantages like shorter wash time and less curling). I'm just saying you don't need to feel like you're going to waste your first 30 attempts. If you can develop your own film successfully, then printing your own enlargements should come fairly easy for you.

The MG IV filters will make things easier for you, but you probably won't need them for most things. So buy them as a convenience, not a necessity item (assuming your color head works properly).

I use only condenser heads, so I have to use filters. Depending on the enlarger, I'll use them above or below the lens. Above the lens is easier. But below is just as good. If you're worried about the quality of the filter when using it below the lens (like dust or scratches or whatever) then just hold the filter in your hand and move it around during exposure so that any imperfections don't stay in one place long enough to matter.

 

[mshchem]

I would start by spending the least amount of money you can. The below the lens filters, you will need down the road for split grade printing of difficult negatives. To start get Ilford paper and chemistry at your local shop. Follow ILFORD'S INSTRUCTIONS. Use your colorhead.

I print a lot of fibre. But for a lot of my work I use Ilford MGIV RC paper. It's a beautiful product. The pearl surface will not show fingerprints.

I have a couple 35 year old Ilford RC print dryers. Will take up to a 20 inch wide print. I use the Ilford gloss paper, the dryer slightly melts the gelatin and results in a brilliant high gloss. Even without a dryer if you are careful and air dry the print in a rack or slanted, you will get lovely results.

Go to Ilfordphoto.com and read everything you can. Great website and customer support.

 

[MattKing]

I really like RC paper, and now do almost all my printing on it, including my exhibition prints.
I currently work with an Ilford Multigrade 400 light source, but I have in the past used below the lens filters and dichroic colour heads to control contrast. Given a choice between a colour head and below the lens filters, I would choose a properly functioning colour head almost every time.
5x7 paper is a good idea, but it can be an even better idea to cut 8x10 sheets into two 5x7's and two strips for tests.
If you don't have them, a paper safe and a good paper trimmer/cutter really increase enjoyment in the procedure.

 

[David Brown]

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Making-your-first-print.pdf

 

[Brian M Harris]

Thanks, I appreciate the advice !

This is fairly likely to spark a very long and potentially endless debate (or rather, continue the existing debate), but I for myself like to keep things simple, so I'll just share my personal experience and leave it up to you to decide how deep you want to dive into all this.

Firstly, for starting out, RC paper is just fine. Ilford is obviously also fine, and so are various other brands. Any neutral-tone RC paper, whether it is glossy, matte, pearl or whatever surface finish you can get your hands on is going to work just fine.


For all intents and purposes, yes. Some have found that they can't get the maximum contrast out of the paper (usually grade 5) using the magenta filtering of a color head, but YMMV. I personally have never experienced practical problems with this, and to me, it matters if I can get the print I need, and not if I'm able to achieve the theoretical maximum with my setup. So by all means give the Y/M filtration a go. If you run out of contrast, see if a blue filter or a genuine Ilford Multigrade #5 filter works better than the maximum magenta setting on your color head. Doesn't hurt to try if you have the filters anyway.
I'd say just do whatever works out best in practice for you. I've made many fine (to my eyes) B&W prints with color heads, Multigrade filters, cheap Foma filters or an Ilford 500 head. Guess what - it all worked just fine.


As long as your filters are reasonably clean, I don't expect you'll run into any problems with below-the-lens filters. Sure, there will be a minor addition of flare/loss or contrast, and heavily polluted or scratched filters will at some point degrade image quality. But in practice, you get away with more than you'd expect, especially if you're starting out and working on getting your first images onto paper.

Later on once you start optimizing your workflow, you may find some of the things I've said above debatable or undesirable for your personal approach. That's OK, but there are other things besides positioning of the filters and the use of filters vs. color heads that have a more profound impact on your darkroom experience. Sometimes they are the little practical things that people don't talk about all that much, such as which kind of timer you prefer to use, what kind of developing trays, how you go about cutting/tearing test strips and what size test strips you use, etc. etc. etc. etc. And sometimes they are very essential things that do get a lot of (well-deserved) attention, such as how to get just the right contrast and tonal scale in your negative to make it easy to get a nice print. All these things, in my experience, are much more relevant than the somewhat more academic (dare I say it) debate about filter positioning and color head vs. multigrade filter use for B&W.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I had trouble for years figuring out when to pull the paper out of the developer. Then I learned to use Kodak Dektol and time the development for two minutes. Immediately I got consistent and great results.

 

[M Carter]

A great developer (esp. for beginners or people who can't print frequently) is Liquidol. It's a liquid concentrate, so no mixing a big jug of Dektol. It's designed for deep blacks and very long tray and bottled life. The stuff is really an excellent value, and other than its very long life, it's similar to Dektol in use. I always felt it had a "silkier" look to the blacks but have never A/B tested it, but it really is a great developer - there's no compromise from the longer life formulation.

 

[mgb74]

I had trouble for years figuring out when to pull the paper out of the developer. Then I learned to use Kodak Dektol and time the development for two minutes. Immediately I got consistent and great results.

This has the advantage of being repeatable (as long as your developer is fresh) and it eliminates a variable. So if you feel a print is overexposed, you can reduce exposure time without worrying about time in the developer.

 

[Tom Kershaw]

Brian,

As you're in the UK (like me) sticking with ILFORD products to begin with isn't a bad option. I'm not sure about your Durst model but my De Vere enlargers are rather fast for smaller prints; if this is the case with your machine, you may find MG Warmtone easier to deal with as it is one of the slower papers, also available in RC. This paper will process very well in many developers, including the Harman Warmtone product.

Tom

 

[pentaxuser]

A great developer (esp. for beginners or people who can't print frequently) is Liquidol. .

The OP is in the U.K. I have never found any stockists in the U.K. for this stuff. Yes it might be available via overseas shipping but at quite a cost and some inconvenience compared to Ilford MG developer

pentaxuser

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Ilford Bromophen is a great developer. I use it regularly. It should be easily available in the UK.

Print development time should be standardized for the most part. Too short is not good, longer won't hurt, so err on the side of more time. I like 2.5 minutes in Bromophen. Adjust print density with exposure time, not by extending or shortening development until you get familiar with everything.

Then, you can use small changes in development time to effectively change print exposure by very small amounts that would be difficult to make at the enlarger. My range for Bromophen is from 2 minutes (the bare minimum IM-HO) to 4 minutes or so. I only do this when making the adjustment with enlarging time would be difficult, e.g., when the amount of adjustment is very small or when I've got a complicated dodging and burning routine that I don't want to change. Or when I really can't decide on nuances in exposure; then I'll make, say, three prints at 2, 3 and 4 minutes (after having one made at 2.5 minutes already), dry them down and compare. I then toss the ones that don't make the cut.

Best,

Doremus