Just Landed a Nikon F4S - Anything I should know/do/lookout for?

Despite_it_all · May 9, 2023

Hi All,

I decided it was time to upgrade my 35mm kit from my all black AE-1 I've had for 20'ish years now to something with more professional latitude and a deep bench when it comes to legacy glass and also the benefit of auto focus. I was lucky enough to win an auction for a Nikon F4S with the big, MB-21 battery pack, the MF-23 back and a few lenses (55mm AF Micro, 25-85mm AF and 105MM AF Micro).

I'm more of a purist and like to travel light so I feel like I'll be swapping the MB-21 for the MB-20 battery pack and the MF-23 back for what came on the camera unless others can convince me why the MF-23 is superior.

The lenses aren't exactly what I was looking for but the 25-85mm might be useful. I was considering starting with an all-purpose 50mm f/1.2 or 1.4 and maybe an 85mm f/1.8 AF.

What else can you tell me that might be useful for someone who hasn't shot Nikon before?

Any suggestions are appreciated!

Christiaan Phleger · May 9, 2023

Welcome to the club! I would definitely suggest the MB-20 with lithiums to help with the weight. Matrix metering is delightful but can take a little while to fully trust what it sees, I suggest not making your own decisions to compensate over or under until you've seen how the images look. Adjust the diopter to your eyes and consider adjusting it when shooting for a long spell or in lower light. F4 screens are now harder to find, I like the J screen but I am fine with the B or U screen. Have fun and enjoy the camera the instantaneous feel of the shutter is quite enjoyable.

Mogens · May 9, 2023

It's hard to make Nikon-related recommendations without knowing what you like to shoot, your preferred aesthetics, etc. You really can't go wrong with the Nikon F4 though, it's sort of perfectly poised in the middle of Nikon's SLR timeline. You can use any F-mount lens made from 1959 to the present on that (some lens types are compromised), here's a hand7 chart you'll want to familiarize yourself with: (link).

Paul Howell · May 9, 2023

I bought a F4 to use with my AIS lens, the focus confirmation works really well. I was thinking of adding a few AF lens, then a friends of mine passed and I inherited his Fs, a black and chrome the chrome is in storage and will be sent as his widow clears out his belongings. Rather than AF will get AIS lens. The 105 is good lens, other lens is the 180 2.8 or if you have the funds the 200 2.0.

Alan9940 · May 9, 2023

The F4 is a great camera! I bought mine new so many years ago that I can't remember exactly when I got it. The biggest issue with the camera is LCD bleed. Mine has a little of that, but it doesn't effect my use of it at all. A nifty-fifty is a great lens to start with. If you like zooms, I've used the 35-70/2.8D and 80-200/2.8D for many years and, though these lenses on paper don't come up to the level of the most recents zooms, I've never been dissatisfied with the results from either. I would definitely go with the MB-20 batter grip, if you don't need speed.

Despite_it_all · May 9, 2023

Thanks for the replies everyone!
Nice to know the MB-20 is a must have since I don't have need for speedy film advancement. That topic fits nicely into a question that was asked about the type of photography I do. This camera would mostly be a travel camera. One I bring with me on day-to-day around town trips by bicycle and what I take when heading out for larger visits to different neighboring towns. I tend to shoot cityscapes, structures, architecture, mild portraiture and showing people's lifestyles, but I'm not a street photographer. I do shoot about half black and white and half color, so I float around there. I also like to put an artistic, fine art-style flair whenever I can. I'm not sure that helps since I just named quite a few photography styles but that's generally what this camera would be used for.

A few of you mentioned some big zooms. What are you typically using these for? I've been curious about their usefulness after digesting a natural light photography book and how the author really seems to have an affinity for his 200mm lens and bringing a subject in nice and close.

Also mentioned, by @Christiaan Phleger, are screens. Generally, how difficult are those to change out?

Sirius Glass · May 9, 2023

Despite_it_all said:
Thanks for the replies everyone!
Nice to know the MB-20 is a must have since I don't have need for speedy film advancement. That topic fits nicely into a question that was asked about the type of photography I do. This camera would mostly be a travel camera. One I bring with me on day-to-day around town trips by bicycle and what I take when heading out for larger visits to different neighboring towns. I tend to shoot cityscapes, structures, architecture, mild portraiture and showing people's lifestyles, but I'm not a street photographer. I do shoot about half black and white and half color, so I float around there. I also like to put an artistic, fine art-style flair whenever I can. I'm not sure that helps since I just named quite a few photography styles but that's generally what this camera would be used for.

A few of you mentioned some big zooms. What are you typically using these for? I've been curious about their usefulness after digesting a natural light photography book and how the author really seems to have an affinity for his 200mm lens and bringing a subject in nice and close.

Also mentioned, by @Christiaan Phleger, are screens. Generally, how difficult are those to change out?

I am partial to 28mm to 300mm AF zoom lenses.

Welcome to ~~APUG~~ Photrio!!

Christiaan Phleger · May 9, 2023

As always some fine advice by contributors. The screens are very easy to swap out, the finder slides off and the screen pops out with a fingernail, and re-installation is simple and error free.

I am similar in usage as to how you are going to be using it, sort of a type of 'street shooting' mostly using a bicycle, for which I am grateful for the durability of the F4, the weight is ok if I use a lighter lens, I have a lot of light to shoot in so I don't always need the very fastest glass, and so I often choose lighter but slower glass. One I can really recommend for the F4 (especially with the MB-20) is the 135mm f/3.5 Ai-S, it is very small and light yet it packs a tremendous telephoto compression and is very sharp. I like it for the compressive effect with higher (f/8-11) f-stops for stacking and aligning architectural features, and f/3.5 is fast enough for medium distance portraits in the shadows of daylight. Sometimes I couple that lens with a medium speed wide angle, recent favorites are the 35mm f/2 O.C or the 35mm f/2.8 Ai, and that gives me a fairly flexible but 'light' kit for everyday readiness.

Alan9940 · May 9, 2023

Despite_it_all said:
A few of you mentioned some big zooms. What are you typically using these for? I've been curious about their usefulness after digesting a natural light photography book and how the author really seems to have an affinity for his 200mm lens and bringing a subject in nice and close.

The largest Nikkor zoom I own is the 80-200/2.8D. I use it to pick out isolated subjects in the landscape. Like the battery grip, if you don't need the speed, you don't need a fast zoom like a 2.8.

Despite_it_all · May 9, 2023

Thank you for the write up on how you use your F4, @Christiaan Phleger! That is very helpful. I like the sound of the 135mm as an all purpose lens though I do typically like a little more bokeh when I'm isolating a subject. I suppose that is a weight vs asthetics trade off.

Great stuff everyone. Please keep it coming.

Paul Howell · May 9, 2023

Cityscapes, how wide, maybe a 24 to 50 I think 3.5 to 4.5.

Despite_it_all · May 9, 2023

I haven't yet run a roll through the F4 so I have no experience on the results but I don't want to overlook the MF-23 back. This add-on seems like it could have some worth but I'd love to hear actual user experience, and personal value, from the group.

SteveInConverse · May 9, 2023

Despite_it_all said:
Hi All,

I decided it was time to upgrade my 35mm kit from my all black AE-1 I've had for 20'ish years now to something with more professional latitude and a deep bench when it comes to legacy glass and also the benefit of auto focus. I was lucky enough to win an auction for a Nikon F4S with the big, MB-21 battery pack, the MF-23 back and a few lenses (55mm AF Micro, 25-85mm AF and 105MM AF Micro).

I'm more of a purist and like to travel light so I feel like I'll be swapping the MB-21 for the MB-20 battery pack and the MF-23 back for what came on the camera unless others can convince me why the MF-23 is superior.

The lenses aren't exactly what I was looking for but the 25-85mm might be useful. I was considering starting with an all-purpose 50mm f/1.2 or 1.4 and maybe an 85mm f/1.8 AF.

What else can you tell me that might be useful for someone who hasn't shot Nikon before?

Any suggestions are appreciated!

Don't store the AA batteries in the camera as, if I recall correctly, they can leak and cause failure inside the F4. It's a great camera.

Despite_it_all · May 9, 2023

SteveInConverse said:
Don't store the AA batteries in the camera as, if I recall correctly, they can leak and cause failure inside the F4. It's a great camera.

Agreed! Great point.

I've learned the hard way there with my current digital camera lineup. The batteries start to swell and getting them out is nearly impossible. I've started to just remove all batteries from all cameras. It's not worth the risk!

Christiaan Phleger · May 9, 2023

I think the F4 is a better one for batteries unless its over a few months, I use and have used lithium AA for several decades and some have had the same set for up to 10 years; I habitually marker one cell with the installation date and I found an F4 body that wasn't used very much for a few years and the date was a full decade before. I would not trust any alkaline AA past a few months in any camera, I seem to have encountered more leaking copper tops but that could be my own prejudices. (To me it seems the slightly older cameras than the F4 had more battery leakage issues, I think due to a tiny current drain).

As for Bokeh and 135mm, Ha, I laugh as I pull out the 135mm f/2 Ai-s.

The f/3.5 Ai-s version has a great balance in a *tiny* package and at wide open and common portrait distances the bokeh is certainly not objectionable, with an eye on the backgrounds it can be pleasant, which adds to the flexibility as a travel or 'beach" lens where I would typically encounter brighter shooting conditions. If bokeh is the point or "heavily encouraged" then I'd select the f/2 version, a brutal hunk of metal and glass (a bit of rubber on the focus ring). I have fond recollections of shooting the 135mm f/2 at basketball games I covered for the local paper, sitting 1/4 court-side shooting across to the bench gave a good framing for an exuberant (or dejected) bench.

By all means, if you can find a use for that particular focal length and can deal with the weight (its relatively small) it is one of the finest that Nikon makes.

4season · May 10, 2023

It's been years since I've owned an F4, but at the time, I felt it was perhaps Nikon's finest manual-focus SLR.

Sirius Glass · May 10, 2023

The OP should buy more film. In fact before the price goes up again, buy a lot of film and store it in the freezer.

Christiaan Phleger · May 10, 2023

Well that is a fine idea, and I think it is a good time to stock up, I did the past few weeks, it seemed as if the availability and price has improved at the places I purchase film. Mpex often has aggressive pricing.

Christiaan Phleger · May 10, 2023

In addition, one feature I really have appreciated over the years is the finder illumination switch and operation. Of course everyone love to gripe about the F3 tiny incandescent wheat bulb (an astounding bit of very old-school technology) and certainly the actual illumination of the F4 is a vast improvement, but this one aspect of the F4 that I really enjoy is the fact that you can Turn The Light Off! The F5 has the light permanently fixed in the On position (unless someone has a secret custom function to disable? I've never found it). With the F4 you can preserve your night vision and still photograph, while with the F5 you have to turn the camera to fully off in order to quench the light, and the difference in visual perception and acuity from Light Off to Light On certainly makes shooting in low light much more difficult. This is one of the key reasons I preferred shooting evening coverage of weddings with the F4 (and of course, the mentioned 135mm f/2).

Craig · May 10, 2023

I used an F4 for years, and it's a great camera. I found the matrix metering was particularly accurate for slide film, most of the time it's a set it and forget it type of meter. I have also done the zone system spot metering, shadow placement etc for B&W and the final light reading came to exactly what the matrix meter suggested.

I generally put it in program mode, and matrix metering and treat it as a point and shoot. Can't go wrong. I do have the 4 battery grip and that does make a difference to weight. I usually rewind the film manually just to save battery power.

DNH · May 10, 2023

I had an MF-23 on mine & I found it quite uncomfortable to shoot with due to how far it stuck out. I don't have a big nose, but my nose was jammed up against it.

I have replaced it with the standard back & am much happier.

Despite_it_all · May 11, 2023

Checking in here to let everyone know I'm taking note.

Film is no problem. I've got a good supply and know what the market is doing at the moment (fluctuating costs, price increases, hoarding, etc.).

Thanks for the hot tip on the finder illumination, Christiaan! I see a few reasons (most you named) to permanently disable that.

I also like your set it and forget it plan, Craig.

I appreciate @DNH for chiming in about the back. I haven't received the camera yet (it's in the mail) but I can already tell all of the ridges and textures likely aren't for me. I'm hoping the original back may be in the kit I purchased. The ad wasn't greatly represented or photographed so it may be in the big bag it comes with. Fingers crossed!

Craig · May 11, 2023

It has a single AF sensor and it does need some contrast to find focus. Depending on the subject, such as if there are lines in one direction and the focus hunts; sometimes tilting the camera 45 degrees gives it enough that it can find focus.

The nice thing about the F4 is it's highly compatible with the manual focus lenses, and will still do matrix metering with the last series (AIS) lenses. That opens up a large range of usable lenses if you don't mind manual focus. For wide angles that's not usually much of an issue.

Paul Howell · May 11, 2023

I use mine with my old AI and AIS lens, I would not use it for sports or action, otherwise does just fine with focus confirmation.

Christiaan Phleger · May 11, 2023

Ha, well one amazing aspect of the F4 is just how flexible it is as a camera/tool. For instance, @Paul Howell doesn't use it for sports or action whereas I usually *choose* the F4s for the action/surf shooting that I do when the large wave season swings into Hawaii. I don't use AF but I do use a couple of long telephotos, and I appreciate the exceptionally bright finder and screens to manually focus them. I always swap and install certain screens for this, usually the U screen but sometimes switch to the F screen (slightly grainer on the matte) for tele-converter use and/or a matched G or H screen for lower light. The fast enough motor drive is useful for the small sequences I shoot, usually 2-6 frames per 'good' ride. For a season I did make a small additional battery pack to 'over-boost' the frame rate to something closer to 8-9 FPS.
The Matrix metering along with a quick shift to spot metering is what I use, but often I can run up to the 16 2/3 EV limit of the Matrix in the high illumination values of "Beach with bright sand in direct sun".

This has been a fun conversation; I recently picked up a bargain F4 without battery grip that was listed as non- functional but yes, of course it would be without the battery pack! It works fine, they are tough cameras.

Just Landed a Nikon F4S - Anything I should know/do/lookout for?

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