Just bought Watson 100 bulk loader: 35mm Canister Recommendations?

Hello all,
I've decided to take the plunge and try my hand at bulk loading my own 35mm film.

I just bought a Watson model 100 loader....and now I need to buy 35mm canisters to load.

Can someone recommend some reusable ones and where to get them? I looked and didn't find any at B&H, thinking they'd have some....

Are there particular things to look for in a reusable 35mm cartridge?

Thank you in advance,

cayenne

BKA used to sell good metal ones, but those are hard to find
I haven;t used plastic cartridges, just metal.

I think Freestyle would be your best bet; haven't use the reloadable cartrdiges from their brand though

Don't use plastic ones, use only metal.

it is becoming a rare item. I get the impression that the tooling to make many of the re-loadable ones has worn out. their are some e-bay sellers of Soviet style ones. and their are the plastic ones with the screw off end cap. I know I wish I had of bought a box or two of the 400DXones when I had a chance, I held off because the price had gone up - Bad move on my part

ultrafineonline.com currently has metal DX-coded cassettes in stock.

Until I investigated after reading this thread, I didn't know there was a shortage. I had bought a 25-pack from Freestyle 8 months ago and they seem to be out now.

It just seems that in the COVID era, shortages of unexpected items are routinely expected.

I use the metal ones from Freestyle and find them quite suitable.

If you use an old Leica or Nikon (F, F2) you can get cassettes with a rotary light trap that will last forever. The Alden loader has a key that will open them for loading, I don't know about the Watson.

Another good option are Soviet cassettes. They sold 35mm film 'naked' in 36 exposure rolls, like minature bulk film, and you had to load it on the spool and put it in a cassette yourself (sans loader, of course). As a result the cassettes were well built and had the most extravagant plush for the light trap/film slot. I think the cassettes probably outlasted most of the cameras.

Those that were built to fit the Leica, Zeiss 35mms and older Nikons are by far the best of the lot. They don't work well with every bulk film loader out there because the cassette has to be closed before opening the bulk loader. Of course if you do it all in a darkroom you won't have any trouble and will be able to manually close the film cassette before turning on the lights. Either way they do take a little practice to get comfortable with them.

After that come the metal ones sold by Freestyle, and maybe others. They seem to hold up pretty well. I have several that are over 10 years old and still seem to work fine. They aren't quite as easy to use because the end caps are snapped on and off but the felt seems to hold up well. The felt on these can be cleaned up when needed by popping off the snap cap ends on both sides, spreading the lips of the cassette itself and use a piece of tape to clean the felt. I use post it notes because the glue sticks to dirt particles but not so hard that it tears the felt away.

There are also the plastic ones with the screw on caps. Those are quite easy to use but most of mine have light leaks now because the felt is coming off the plastic. I don't buy them any longer and

Of course there are the manufacturer's cannisters that are crimped together. If you remember to leave a tongue on the end you can tape the new film onto the tongue of existing film. That is nice but I have had my tape jobs come undone at the end of the roll, particularly when I'm using auto wind cameras that depend on the tension at the end of the roll to start the rewind process. They will also eventually collect enough dirt that they start scratching the film.

There is a cassette called the Shirley Wellard that, unlike the Leica and Zeiss cassettes, was supposed to be universa,l but they are hard to find. They can be used in manual cameras where the film rewind knob is pulled out to open the camera back and to load the cassette. They are kind of a pain for forgetful types like me because you are expected to manually open and close the cassette before you start to use the film and before you open the back to retrieve the rewound cannister. What happens is the rewind knob on the camera actually sits up above the top plate a bit once the film cannister is loaded. Before you start shooting the film you press down on the rewind knob and twist, I think clockwise, to open the cassette. Once finished and after you rewind the film you press down again and rotate the knob the opposite direction to close the cassette. I had two and after forgetting to close the cassette and opening the camera back a couple of times, thus exposing my film to a massive light leak, I decided they weren't for me and I sold them on flea bay.

Eventually any cassette that depends on felt to provide a light seal will start to fail, sometimes because the felt pulls away from the lips of the cannister, or they start to get dirt and grit stuck in the felt which scratches the film as is it pulls through the felt trap on the way out, and then on the way back in as it is being rewound. But several of mine have lasted quite awhile.

If there is a company in your town that still processes film, ask them to give you some of their used cannisters... you know, the 36 exposure ones that c-41 kodak and fuji film came in. Then just tape onto the old stub, and Bob's your uncle. You might even get an extra roll (or partial roll) out of your 100 foot bulk roll this way because you don't waste that bit of film that would tape onto the spool if you use conventional reloadable film cartridges.

I quite like the plastic ones I have -- easier to open and close, and no more (or less) prone to scratching the film than metal ones. It's (in my experience) fairly difficult to get the cap back on to a reloadable metal cassette in the dark, where with the plastic ones it's just line up the bump and a fraction of a turn. Then a similar fractional turn to open them for processing, vs. having to push the spool on a hard surface to pop the cap off without using an opener (and risking bending the cap).

You won't save anything that matters taping to the stub in a used cassette (and you're likely to find it difficult to get the film perfectly aligned, causing a jam part way through the load); with a Watson, unless you load in the dark, you're always going to expose the last couple frames just getting the film onto the spool and into the cassette (Lloyd style loaders need less length to load, so there's less of this). Be aware of this and watch your camera's counter; otherwise, the best shots of your life will wind up on the fogged tail.

cmacd123 said:

it is becoming a rare item. I get the impression that the tooling to make many of the re-loadable ones has worn out. their are some e-bay sellers of Soviet style ones.

Click to expand...

Kaiser still offer the plastic ones. (And likely still make them.)

I found moths got to the felt in my Llyod loaders - once a moth finds a way in it is all over as it lays umpteen (slightly less than an oodle) of eggs. Also, if you do get grit in the felt light trap you will never, ever, get it out. There are plenty of loaders on ebay, and from some unfathomable reason the Llyods are the more expensive of the lot; when new they were the cheapest by a wide margin.

Donald Qualls said:

You won't save anything that matters taping to the stub in a used cassette (and you're likely to find it difficult to get the film perfectly aligned, causing a jam part way through the load).

Click to expand...

It's not a lot of savings, but it is a little.

I measured the amount of film in a stub, plus what's inside the cartridge and not showing (which is the amount of film you would save by taping onto stubs) and according to my measurements it's about an inch. Saving an inch on each cartridge multiplied by about 18 cartridges in a 100 foot bulk roll is 18 inches, which is about 12 exposures, an increase in number of exposures from a 100 foot bulk roll of about 1.8%. True, that's not a lot, but 1.8% of $130 (the going rate for 100 foot rolls or Tri-x at Freestyle) is about $2.40. That's not a lot of money, but I'll take it if I can get it. Plus, by taping onto stubs you don't have to buy cartridges or mess with snap-on caps that pop off at the most inopportune moments with the metal reloadable cartridges. (I haven't used the plastic cartridges, so I can't comment on those.)

As for straightness in attaching the film, that issue is not unique to stub-taping. It's also there when you tape directly to the spools, and if it's not straight it's easy to correct the problem before rolling the film into the cartridge.

By the way, it sounds like you prefer the Lloyds loaders. I also prefer that design.

New ones.

I had a lot of issues with metal ones. Well, one issue a lot: scratches. All the ones I have are second hand (got them 15+yrs ago and the metal ones were a lot older than the plastic ones) and I have been throwing away all the ones that have scratched the film. I now have no metal ones left.
I have had thrown away plastic ones too but the ones I have left I can't complain about.

The scratches are nothing to do with the construction, just a side-effect of having more time to collect dirt in the felt.

alanrockwood said:

By the way, it sounds like you prefer the Lloyds loaders. I also prefer that design.

Click to expand...

Actually, I've never used a Lloyd type loader -- I learned to bulk load (summer of 1969) on a Watson type with a counter wheel, I own five Watson types, and have never owned or used a Lloyd style (though I probably will; I have files to 3D print one and will probably modify those to make one that holds a 400' cine roll so I can buy Vision3 or DoubleX at bulk price instead of paying someone to roll it for me).

Donald Qualls said:

Actually, I've never used a Lloyd type loader -- I learned to bulk load (summer of 1969) on a Watson type with a counter wheel, I own five Watson types, and have never owned or used a Lloyd style (though I probably will; I have files to 3D print one and will probably modify those to make one that holds a 400' cine roll so I can buy Vision3 or DoubleX at bulk price instead of paying someone to roll it for me).

Click to expand...

The Vision3 films are the end target for me on this bulk loading thing I'm about to start learning.

I've yet to actually develop my own roll of film yet, however, so I guess that is step one for me. I'll start with B&W.
But I first will buy my hardware (bottles, funnels, changing tent, etc)...and then learn the procedures.
But after that I wanna get into the Vision3 stuff.

I saw the savings on buying a tin and doing from 400' rolls, but I've yet to figure out how to roll that into rolls of 100' to get it into the current Watson bulk loader I have on the way from eBay.

Whew, I have a lot to learn, but it should be fun.

C

cayenne said:

I saw the savings on buying a tin and doing from 400' rolls, but I've yet to figure out how to roll that into rolls of 100' to get it into the current Watson bulk loader I have on the way from eBay.

Click to expand...

Now that's ambitious! I like it.

You'll likely need some sort of adhesive tape to attach film to plastic spool, and I'm particularly partial to 3M drafting tape or painter's tape. They look like ordinary masking tape, but are designed to peel off cleanly. In fact, I just got around to cleaning up some cassettes which I originally bulk-loaded in 2005, and the old drafting tape gave me no trouble at all. I think Kapton-type tapes would also work well.

I've used Photo Warehouse (Ultrafine) metal and plastic cassettes with no problems. The metal cassettes feel fragile but I've never had a problem using them for the last 12 years. Just use a good air blower to remove any lint or dust from the felt, to avoid film scratching. And make sure, with Watson 100, that the gate is open when you wind the film into a cassette; I screwed up a couple of times, loading when it was closed, which scratches the film. Also recommend 1/2" 3M/Scotch masking tape to tape the film to the spool (a 3" piece).

cayenne said:

I saw the savings on buying a tin and doing from 400' rolls, but I've yet to figure out how to roll that into rolls of 100' to get it into the current Watson bulk loader I have on the way from eBay.

Click to expand...

It might be a few months (design takes time, printing too) but I might be able to offer low volume of 400' bulk loaders either here or on eBay once I get a design I like. It should just fit on my 3D printer's build plate...

cayenne said:

I saw the savings on buying a tin and doing from 400' rolls, but I've yet to figure out how to roll that into rolls of 100' to get it into the current Watson bulk loader I have on the way from eBay.
C

Click to expand...

I have some 400' rolls of expired Vision2 that I've been experimenting with. To get it into a 100' bulk loader, I glued several layers of cardboard to about a 1-inch thickness and maybe 16 inches square. Then stuck a couple screws through them to hold the 400' reel and 100' core in place and marked the inside diameter of the loader with tape so I can feel when enough film is on the core. It worked reasonably well and so far I've mounted about 20 cassettes with a Lloyds.

I processed with a super-easy-to-use ECN-2 kit by QWD from Freestyle that comes to about $5 per roll - about the same as the Cinestill C-41 kit without having to figure out on your own how to deal with the remjet. This has all been very tempting. Fresh 400' Vision3 compares favorably in cost with 100' B&W film. In the end I decided that now is not the time to pursue the whole new skillset that is color photography, especially while only barely beginning to understand BW.

Donald Qualls said:

Actually, I've never used a Lloyd type loader -- I learned to bulk load (summer of 1969) on a Watson type with a counter wheel, I ...... modify those to make one that holds a 400' cine roll so I can buy Vision3 or DoubleX at bulk price instead of paying someone to roll it for me).

Click to expand...

My go to loader is a ALDEN 200. - somewhat like a ALDEN 74, but with enough room for 200 ft (60meter) rolls. when I get a 400ft roll of Bulk film, I put it in a split reel, and wind off 200 or so feet of film. to make THAT easy (as It has to be done in teh dark. I put both a 100ft daylight (eyemo) spool, and a 200ft 16mm spool, (could be a 200ft 8mm reel on my LONG center rewind. attach the end of the film to the eyemo spool and wind until the film is up to the diameter of the 200ft spool. Cut the film. the remained of the roll goes back in the original bag and Can. while the Eymo spool with about 20 ft of film goes in the loader.

next time I can just put what is left of original roll in the ALDEN 200, using a left over core from Kodak Bulk film. (Hording these things come in handy) to fill the inch hole in teh movie style core. Note that one batch will have the edge printing on teh top of the finished strip of negatives while the other will have it on the bottom.

I also turn out the lights while changing empty cassettes so I avoid any fogging at the end of each roll. Generally the first part results in slightly MORE than 200ft But the 200ft spool will fit the ALDEN 200 so as long as the roll is smaller than the 200ft spool I am safe.

I have a lloyd and a watson loader,Both with issues. BUT neither will take a 100ft spool, or 100ft of film on a 2 inch core. (not actually tried but comparing with an empty 100ft spool) The Legacy Pro Bulk film came on 100ft daylight spools - nicely stamped "FUJI FILM" so I have a few spares.

AgX said:

Kaiser still offer the plastic ones. (And likely still make them.)

Click to expand...

I was thinking of the so called AGFA/Ilford metal ones similar to the type both those firms used before going to the crimped cartridges. Last batch I got of those the caps no longer fit well. I like to use those as I have several Canon EOS cameras which love to read the DX codes.

What do you mean by "the caps no longer fit well"?
That they fitted in original state, but not after re-closing?

Bulk loading film is super satisfying!

I have a couple of film-loaders and quite a few Leica reloadable cassettes (FILCA & IXMOO) As well as Nikon for Nikon F and Nikon F2 (AM-1). These are great and will last forever - but are inconvenient because they fit only specific cameras and not all bulk loaders will engage the light trap equally well, and not least, they are not that straightforward to load.
I also have some non-branded metal reusable cassettes which works fine, but I really can't see a reason to buy cassettes.
I have routinely kept most of the commercially rolled cassettes I have used. If you make sure that you leave around 0.5-1cm. film out of the cartridge when the film is cut they can easily be reused.
Use some scotch tape to attach the bulk film to the leftover film and roll along. They can be used almost indefinitely and I have never had a scratch from using this method.
If you don't have old commercial cassettes lying around, your local lab may well have. Their film may be cut a little too close to the cartridge, but if you dive into their box, you will probably find many with a sufficient length of film sticking out.
I generally prefer to roll a full bulk roll onto cassettes in one go. That is the fastest approach and will free the bulk loader for other film types should the desire arise. If you choose the same approach, you will want to have a lot of empty cassettes available.

AgX said:

What do you mean by "the caps no longer fit well"?
That they fitted in original state, but not after re-closing?

Click to expand...

the caps on the last few cassettes I bought do not sit nicely in the retaining groves. the older cassettes the caps snap on securely. the new ones the caps don't look like they are 100% in place.