Just bought an ATL-1500. Now what?

snaggs · Mar 30, 2007

It hasn't arrived yet, but I was reading the website and it says

"Supply of tempered water for rinse steps. Min/max water pressure 15-90 p.s.i. (1-6 bar)."

What does this mean? Does this mean filtered water? How are people accomplishing this. Were currently renting whilst we build a house.. is there any temporary solution for this?

Also, can I process 35mm and 120 at the same time? (if theyre the same film etc).

Daniel.

erikg · Mar 30, 2007

You can hook it up to a standard faucet. It helps to have some control over water temp. The processor runs at 75 F. It can warm up cooler water, but it can't cool off hotter water. It wants the incoming water within a few degrees of 75. (24 where you are?) You can mix formats in the same drum. They are pretty handy machines, like a dishwasher, fill it up and walk away.

bdial · Mar 30, 2007

It means that the temperature of the water is controlled, as long as the water pressure is 15 PSI or more, up to 90 PSI. But it is not filtered, at least according to your quoted description. If you are on a municipal water supply then the pressure is likely within that range (even if you are not, it's still likely to be in that range). Often filtration is not absolutely necessary, but you won't really know until you look at your processed negatives with a lupe, and eliminate other causes, such as dust.
If you are in doubt you may be able to add an under-sink filter without too much disruption to the plumbing, but those generally only filter the cold water.

Yes, you can process 35 and 120 at the same time, assuming you have appropriately sized drums.

sattler123 · Mar 30, 2007

Normally you hook these up to a water panel that regulates the temperature - you can find them on eBay. Just use washing machine hoses to link your cold and hot water to the panel and then run the hose(s) to the machine. It is pretty important that the rinse water has the right temp if you want to develop C-41 or E6, esp. for the first rinse.

Petzi · Mar 30, 2007

If you have a supply of warm and cold water from the faucet, you could use a standard thermostat to mix them to the desired temperature. The kind of thermostat that you could use for the shower also.

If you don't have a supply of warm water, you could use an electric flow heater.

If that is unavailable, then, as a temporary solution, it would work with cold water also. It will warm up the chemicals in the processor; but I wonder if it will wash your film with the cold water from the faucet. You must decide whether that would be acceptable.

snaggs · Mar 31, 2007

Ok, every time I've measured our water temperature.. it is normally about 24 degrees. I think I'll be able to get away with it to start with.

Thankyou all!

Daniel.

Petzi · Mar 31, 2007

24 degrees is very warm. I wonder why. Over here, the water comes out of the pipe at something like 6 to 8 degrees.

Mick Fagan · Mar 31, 2007

Petzi, the water temperature in summertime in cool(ish) Melbourne is around 23.5 to 24.5 C. Daniel lives in Perth which is a hotter place, therefore I would think his water would be at least the temperature I have if not slightly hotter.

Currently, as of yesterday, the water temp in my darkroom was 19 C which is virtually perfect.

In the winter the temperature of the water usually drops to around 12 - 13C.

Give or take, most of Australia is warmer than most of Europe.

Mick.

Petzi · Apr 1, 2007

All water pipes are in the ground here. The temperature is rather constant there. The water comes out at more or less the same temperature in summer and winter. Are pipes over the ground in Australia? Actually, the lay them rather deep here, a few meters, to protect them from frost in the winter.

I am not sure Melbourne is warmer than my place. We grow wine here. It is over 30° C on many summer days.

Mick Fagan · Apr 1, 2007

Petzi, generally we don't have the water pipes very far underground, around 300mm is pretty much the norm with electrical pipes between 500 & 600mm in the part of Australia that I live in.

Summer has just finished here and the average daily maximum temperature was about 26.3C over 3 months this year, which is a record by about .2 of a degree, global warming?

We had many days where the temperature this summer was hovering around 38 - 41C with a couple of days, weeks apart, getting slightly above 45C which really is hot, no matter where you are. Considering that this is a cool temperate climate part of the world at 38 degrees latitude one wonders about future summers.

Where in the world are you?

Mick.

jrydberg · Mar 10, 2008

snaggs, how did things go?

I'm about to pick up a used ATL-1500, and plan to use it for both C41, E6 and B&W. The idea was to run it in my bathroom, where I have no washer or anything. I wonder how I will be able to get the rinse water to the right temperature.

edtbjon · Mar 10, 2008

Jrydberg, what kind of water outlet do you have in your bathroom? I know that older ones may not have a mixer for the shower, but most semi-modern ones does indeed have one.
Anyhow, I have an ATL-1000, the predecessor of the 1500 model, which I've been using for B&W and C41 so far. It have produced flawless results.
BTW, if you have questions which are better answered in Swedish, you can PM me.

//Björn

Rolfe Tessem · Mar 10, 2008

I'm not sure the question got totally answered. For the ATL-1000/1500 you need a panel that allows you to adjust the incoming water temperature. This is primarily in order to assure that the rinse temps are inline with the C-41 and E-6 processing temps. But you also need it for B&W, where you need to get the water bath to the correct temperature (usually 68 degrees F). I think trying to use these machines without a tempered water supply would be an exercise in frustration and/or inferior results.

Amund · Mar 10, 2008

Rolfe Tessem said:
I'm not sure the question got totally answered. For the ATL-1000/1500 you need a panel that allows you to adjust the incoming water temperature. This is primarily in order to assure that the rinse temps are inline with the C-41 and E-6 processing temps. But you also need it for B&W, where you need to get the water bath to the correct temperature (usually 68 degrees F). I think trying to use these machines without a tempered water supply would be an exercise in frustration and/or inferior results.

No problem at all using a ATL-1500 without a tempered water supply with B&W at all. I hook mine up to the shower and adjust the temperature until it`s 75-ish(working temp of the ATL). The ATL-1500 has a heater and will keep the water bath at a consistent 75 degrees F... The rinse temperature being off by a degree or two isn`t a problem at all.

Rolfe Tessem · Mar 10, 2008

Well, if you're adjusting the temperatures, then it is a tempered supply .

With the ATL-1000 and, I believe, earlier ATL-1500's, the unit does nothing to the incoming water temp when in the B&W programs. So, if you want it at 68, you need to set it at 68 on your water mixing panel. It sounds like you have a later ATL-1500. Even in this case, you have to be sure you feed it water colder than 75, since it obviously won't cool down the water bath.

edtbjon · Mar 11, 2008

The processor does not and can not heat the incoming wash water. What it does is to fill up for the water jacket around the chemical tanks and then heat this water jacket until the chemicals are at the correct temperature. If you can set the incoming water temperature, you should set it to just below (say one deg C) the current processing temperature (24 deg for B&W and 38 deg for color). What is really important is that the processing starts when the correct temperature is reached, assuming that the incoming water was colder than the target temperature. If the incoming water was too hot to begin with, the processing will start immediately, resulting in overcooked film.

Given this: It's good if you can set the incoming temperature to something close to but not higher than the processing temperature. This so that prewash and or other washes are in the same temperature range as the process as such.
If you only have access to cold water, than so be it. The process will run anyhow, without any big concerns. (A slight temp. chock between prewet/washes and the process as such.)
Just be sure that the incoming water isn't too hot. If so, wait until the water is cooler. (Probably around October or so in the northen hemisphere. )

The only real difference in between the 1000 and the 1500 model is that the computer in the 1500 is a bit more modern. All the hardware is the same, as are most of the programmes. There is no difference in how the different models handle the temperature control of the chemicals. I.e. on my "old" ATL-1000 the temp. is controlled in both 24 and 38 deg. processes.
Then "common sense" says that if you have freezing cold incoming water there could be problems caused by the big prewash and postwash temperature difference. As B&W processes doesn't have any water bath for the processing drums, there will be an offset when the developer enters the chilled drum.

//Björn

//Björn

Amund · Mar 11, 2008

Good advise Bjørn.

What you could also do, with only cold water available, is to program the B&W-programs to use the three unused tanks for washing, it will prolong the time before you are washing with the cold water.
Or you could even make a program using only the last three tanks and use that after the dev program, and refill and wash with som pre heated water.

edtbjon · Mar 11, 2008

Which is what I could do ... if I had the 1500 model. As I'm cheap and bought a used ATL1000 I have to settle with tempered water instead.

//Björn

paul ewins · Mar 11, 2008

I recently bought an ATL1000 and along with the processor came two plastic jerry cans, a water heater and a pump, all of which are genuine Jobo parts. It would seem that these are for providing tempered wash water when you don't have a direct supply. It shouldn't be too hard to replicate this setup with off the shelf items from other sources.

Renato Tonelli · Mar 11, 2008

Amund said:
Good advise Bjørn.

What you could also do, with only cold water available, is to program the B&W-programs to use the three unused tanks for washing, it will prolong the time before you are washing with the cold water.
Or you could even make a program using only the last three tanks and use that after the dev program, and refill and wash with som pre heated water.

As far as I can tell from reading the manual, the B&W process programs make use of the first three chemical tanks only. How do you make use of the others: they are for the E6 and C41 programs which requires a 38C temperature to start. Let's say that I want to develop some B&W with a two-bath developer like Diafine. How do I program the ATL1500 for it? Is it possible?

Amund · Mar 12, 2008

Renato Tonelli said:
As far as I can tell from reading the manual, the B&W process programs make use of the first three chemical tanks only. How do you make use of the others: they are for the E6 and C41 programs which requires a 38C temperature to start. Let's say that I want to develop some B&W with a two-bath developer like Diafine. How do I program the ATL1500 for it? Is it possible?

You can reprogram any of the programs do do anything you want

It says how in the manual. But basically you press and hold the middle button while powering up in the program you want to change. First you can choose between 24 or 38 degrees(select with the top button), press the middle button again to select the time for prewash(leave at zero to skip it), then comes the first bottle, select the time with top button and so on...

But you don`t want to use Diafine in a Jobo....I don`t think constant agitation will work with Diafine.

jrydberg · May 2, 2008

I received one of these puppies not so long ago, but haven't had the time to try it out yet.

While going through what I need to plug it in I came to think about water preasure. The manual says you shouldn't exceed 6 BAR (90 p.s.i.).
How can I measure the water preasure (I'm gonna use my shower, where I can hook up the 1/2 inch)? Also, has anyone ever run the processor
with a higher preasure than 6 BARs? Are there any restrictions when it comes to water flow speed?

I'm tempted to just plug it in and see if it works, but it would be bad to blow the thing up.

Cheers,
Johan

edtbjon · May 3, 2008

Johan, the shower hose is perfectly safe. If it would be anyway near 6 bar, a shower would be a very painful experience. I.e. any normal household water tap is fine.

I got an ATL 1000, which is a joy to use for both color and b/w up to 4x5". (Ok, I perfer to use my CPA2 in Expert drums for b/w sheet film, as I want some more options than the ATL1000 gives me. A programmable 1500 would be better, but still, the 1000 is a very neat and nice machine.)

//Björn

jrydberg · May 4, 2008

edtbjon said:
Johan, the shower hose is perfectly safe. If it would be anyway near 6 bar, a shower would be a very painful experience. I.e. any normal household water tap is fine.

I got an ATL 1000, which is a joy to use for both color and b/w up to 4x5". (Ok, I perfer to use my CPA2 in Expert drums for b/w sheet film, as I want some more options than the ATL1000 gives me. A programmable 1500 would be better, but still, the 1000 is a very neat and nice machine.)

//Björn

Thanks Björn. I did a few test runs earlier today with good result.

Yeah, the 1500 seems to be a good processor. I'm looking forward to doing my own color stuff.

Just bought an ATL-1500. Now what?

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