Jupiter 8 with 18 aperture blades?!

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Themontyburns

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Newbie, so please go easy folks.

Just won a chrome 50's Jupiter 8, but it has 18 aperture blades rather than the typical 9.

Can't find a thing on th'internet about it.

Ideas? Opinions? Conspiracy theories?

What do you think the quality will be like?
 

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Themontyburns

Themontyburns

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Newbie, so please go easy folks.

Just won a chrome 50's Jupiter 8, but it has 18 aperture blades rather than the typical 9.

Can't find a thing on th'internet about it.

Ideas? Opinions? Conspiracy theories?

What do you think the quality will be like?
 

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MattKing

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Hi and welcome to APUG.
I can't help you with your question, but thought you would like to know that it is unnecessary to post the same query in more than one sub-forum. Most here use the "New Posts" facility, so they will see your thread no matter which sub-fora you use.
It isn't a problem - the moderators will probably close down one of the duplicates.
Hope you enjoy APUG.
 
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Themontyburns

Themontyburns

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Thanks Matt. It's was a tester as it could go in either and there aren't many threads regarding lenses themselves. I apreciate the advice and thank you.
 

Helinophoto

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Sounds weird, almost like some kind of hybrid, but it may be some kind of special edition.

Send Brian a message over at leicaplace.com here: Dead Link Removed

If anyone knows, it must be him, he has seen hundreds of these and should know a lot.
I suppose the out of focus highlights will be pretty round :tongue:

I would be interested to see what you find out about this lens ^^
 

hashtagquack

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I realise that it would likely have minimal difference on the out of focus highlights as the regular Jupiter 8 already has a rather round aperture but all I know is that I really want an 18 bladed version now!
 

Helinophoto

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The only other lens I know (soviet) with 18 blades, is the Jupiter-6 180mm f2.8, it's huge, but if the aperture is way back in the lens, it's perhaps possible to hack something into the Jupiter-8
https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7098/7163292012_357e4404c8.jpg

Again, I would recommend Brian, he has not only done a lot of work on a lot of lenses, but he has also created various hybrids from one mount to another etc and should know. (I am 100% sure he will be intrigued to know more about the lens ).
 
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Themontyburns

Themontyburns

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Thanks Helinophoto, I've dropped him a message....so let's see what he says!

Hashtagquack...we know it's going to end up being a dog of a lens haha. I've only got a black 70's Jupiter 8 on my Bessa R so I'm not sure why I even pulled the trigger on this. It just intrigued me. This is why I've come to love analogue over digital. They even claim it's been fully CLA'd. Madness.
 

shutterfinger

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I had to ask the KGB to pull this up from their archives. :smile:
f2.0 50mm Jupiter-8/8M These lenses were seen on M39 screw, and as Jupiter-8M when on
Kiev, in 1963, 1975. This is a common lens, based on the Sonnar. These were made in chrome or black finish,
when the number may be on the side of the barrel and here it does not seem to begin with digits suggesting
the date- the Kiev lenses do seem to, eg. at No 7,468,32x on body 7,410,53x. but the M39 ones include one
seen at No0,223,64x in black, 7,418,73x in chrome. (Rus004). Others may have the date, as with
No5,942,769, which is a 1:2 F=5cm in a rigid white barrel, with unuasually a protruding finger knob at the side
for focusing. Alderson in Photographica gives 1957 as the date for the conversion from the Jupiter 8 to the
Jupiter 8M which was used at least on Kiev bodies until replaced by the Helios 103 about 1980. (The
additional coding M may show improved coating as the external curves of 8 and 8M lenses seem to be the
same or not measurably different.)
Note that at least one camera, the TSVVS used original Zeiss Jena f2 Sonnars, eg at No3,060,22x.

11 and 13 blade apertures were very common possibly until auto exposure modes were introduced.
 

RalphLambrecht

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Newbie, so please go easy folks.

Just won a chrome 50's Jupiter 8, but it has 18 aperture blades rather than the typical 9.

Can't find a thing on th'internet about it.

Ideas? Opinions? Conspiracy theories?

What do you think the quality will be like?
hopefully will have a beautiful bokeh
 

Skiver101

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I just missed out on one of these lenses for a fiver not long ago - I dithered... and it was gone.
I've read that you can get nicer 'bokeh' the more blades you have. Try it out sometime.
 

Old-N-Feeble

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The closer to a perfect circle the aperture forms the better the Bokeh, hense the use of many aperture blades.

A few years ago, I posted the same thing about 'round apertures' being more important at making beautiful bokeh than lens design and was lambasted many times here and on LFPF. Did the rules of optics change since then? But at the time, the term "bokeh" was largely rejected by the 'smart ones'. :smile:
 

Ko.Fe.

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A few years ago, I posted the same thing about 'round apertures' being more important at making beautiful bokeh than lens design and was lambasted many times here and on LFPF. Did the rules of optics change since then? But at the time, the term "bokeh" was largely rejected by the 'smart ones'. :smile:

I'm not surprised... I think, most of those think what bokeh is the best at wide open.

Where was another fundamental research on bokeh and aperure blades shape was mentioned as the factor.
Page 31:
https://www.zeiss.com/content/dam/Photography/new/pdf/en/cln_archiv/cln35_en_web_special_bokeh.pdf

This is why I like Industar-26m despite regular bashing and rating higher Industar-61 L/D with primitive aperture.
Something at f4-f5.6.

7903791620_edd9a9f45c_o.jpg
[/url]
 
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Themontyburns

Themontyburns

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It'll take the usual weeks of delivery from its Russian home so as soon as I get it I'll post some examples. I'm sure it'll be slightly out of focus like other examples.

Fingers crossed!
 

btaylor

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Jupiters have great potential. Maybe it will be amazing, maybe a dud. In my experience with FSU lenses (a lot!) most of them are really fine optics, though mechanically they leave a lot to be desired much of the time.

Concerning attractive bokeh, OOF specular highlights in the background will show the shape of the iris. This drives me nuts in plenty of movies. Zeiss made (and may still) a long running series of professional mopic lenses, an industry standard for decades. Many of them have 5 or 6 bladed apertures that look very unappealing to me in background highlights. My FSU Lomo apertures are nice and round, and have a warm and gorgeous look IMHO, just like your Jupiter should.

Concerning focus, while many of them are not properly adjusted anyway, remember that they focus differently from LTM lenses made for Leica and Leica standard LTM mounts. The rangefinder/helical/film plane relationship differs slightly with FSU 39mm (LTM) mount cameras. There are long discussions over at RFF if you're interested.
 
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Themontyburns

Themontyburns

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This was the most helpful reply I've had from an engineer called Brian.

"The focus mount is from 1955 through 1960 or so: the earlier tabbed J-8 mounts did not use the three screws for the rear.
The 1952 SN: most likely Zeiss Glass, Zeiss barrel, finished in Russia. I have some "assembly practice" lenses from this period that have a one-off quality, like they were experimenting with making them on their own. Think of lots of parts and optics coming in from Germany after the war and then reverse engineering them. Ultimately: the Russian fixtures were better, but it took some time. I have some 1950 lenses that never worked, someone much later put them into a focus mount- to use them (those generally worked) or to sell them.

If the images are good agreement with the RF: you should get some really good pictures with it"
 

Helinophoto

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It's amazing how much facts Brian have on these lenses. ^^

Well, if the lens is too long or short for the Leica standard, you can always adjust it.

I have made a few blog-entries on how to lubricate and how to adjust the focal-length on these, based on Brian-information.
Simply re-shimming the lens, can fix the issue, so it's spot-on at 1 meter, but if it's too long or too short, the lens will be off when you get further away and totally off at infinity.
In that case, you need to get the rear triplet closer or father from the front group, by grinding the mount for it.

I found it best to use a loupe and a self-grinded ground-glass, attached to my voigtländer r3m and lock the camera on bulb, to check the focus during adjustment, to get mine to agree to the Leica-standard.

I have gathered links to various information as well, that might come in handy:

http://helino-photo.blogspot.no/2015/12/jupiter-8-vs-jupiter-8-vs-carl-zeiss.html

http://helino-photo.blogspot.no/2016/01/how-to-clean-and-re-grease-two-jupiter.html

Here is a discussion I had with Brian, concerning a J3 that was too long, and how to interpret focus-issues:
Dead Link Removed

I never could get that J3 to be Leica-standard excactly, but the other day I mounted it on my zorki 1 and it's spot on on that one now, so I will use it on that camera ^^
(I use Leica-lenses on my Leica-gear these days, so the J3, since it was slightly off, never saw any action on these cameras after all).
So if you are not able to adjust it to agree with the Leica-standard, you can always optimize it for use on a zorki or a fed.
 

Harry Stevens

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I have a Yashica electro 35 and I often think that if this took 39mm interchangeable lenses it would be a killer of a camera with any of my Jupiter 8s on it.:smile:
 

Ko.Fe.

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...
The 1952 SN: most likely Zeiss Glass, Zeiss barrel, finished in Russia...

Not likely at all. Here is no repatriated German glass in J-8 at all. J-8 is original FSU lens with glass recalculated from CZJ Sonnar.
"Перерасчёт оригинального «CZJ Sonnar» 2,0/50 выполнен примерно в 1948 году на КМЗ М. Д. Мальцевым. Производился на КМЗ с 1948 года".
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Юпитер_(объектив)#.D0.AE.D0.BF.D0.B8.D1.82.D0.B5.D1.80-8

Years ago I've had J-8 from fifties with focus collar, it was so clean. I sold it for less and chased after old Leitz fifty lenses. Shouldn't really do it, but just kept J-8.

9103139969_02e0e3c868_o.jpg
 
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