Jobo tank questions

polyglot · Jun 20, 2011

Hi all,

I have some quick questions regarding the sizing of tanks. I have a CPP-2 with lift that came with a few tanks (all unlabelled) and two black reels (2502?), though I only have enough centre-post to support a single reel (set for 120 width) in the short tank. The tanks I have are of about 136mm external diameter, one is 100mm long (2521?), one is 240mm long (2830?) and I have a 290mm extension (2870?).

Can someone please tell me if I've guessed the correct model numbers? Googling for Jobo tanks gets me plenty of pictures and info on the fill levels but nothing about their physical dimensions.

Now, 15xx drums. They are of smaller diameter, right? Is there any benefit to using them over the 2xxx drums, particularly for roll-film? I have a chance to buy what looks like a 1520+1530 with 4 reels and the complete plastic column, which means I could probably (depending on capacity) soup 4 rolls at a go, which is plenty for me. However:

My CPP-2 doesn't seem to have the little black plastic roller-extension tabs that the manual says I should use to support 15xx and 30xx drums. The rollers are mounted directly in those little cross-pieces. Are the tabs obtainable? I think I'm going to need them for the 3010 that I would like to buy...

Do I bother with the 15xx kit or will it just be a damn hassle without the roller support tabs?

Update: my 240mm long tank has no ribs to support prints so I suspect it might actually be a 2551. It's 213mm long internally and has a flat bottom (unlike the 2521 with an indented bottom) with a thing to receive the centre-column. Any ideas?

thanks...

Sirius Glass · Jun 20, 2011

Contact joboman@aol.com for the roller support tabs. The shipping will probably cost more than the tabs. If you use any of the 15xx tanks or the Expert Drums you will need the tabs.

Steve

polyglot · Jun 20, 2011

Thanks. I think I've found a single seller on eBay that has the right centre column for the Multi-Tank 5, some extension rollers and a couple new 2502s, which would have me all set except for 4x5".

Sirius Glass · Jun 20, 2011

I recommend the 3010 Expert Drum which takes up to ten 4"x5" except in the UK were it takes up to ten 5"x4".

Steve

polyglot · Jun 20, 2011

Yes, I would love a 3010. Finding one that's affordable is another story.

Sirius Glass · Jun 20, 2011

polyglot said:
Yes, I would love a 3010. Finding one that's affordable is another story.

I paid full fare for a new one. I just think about dividing the cost over every sheet of film I will develop with it. In less than six months I am down to about $1.50US per sheet and the price is dropping fast.

jglass · Jun 20, 2011

polyglot said:
Thanks. I think I've found a single seller on eBay that has the right centre column for the Multi-Tank 5, some extension rollers and a couple new 2502s, which would have me all set except for 4x5".

Could you tell me who that seller is and let me know how your transaction goes. I'm looking for Jobo stuff also.

You can pm me if you want to . Thanks

Sirius Glass · Jun 20, 2011

jglass said:
Could you tell me who that seller is and let me know how your transaction goes. I'm looking for Jobo stuff also.

You can pm me if you want to . Thanks

Please see post #2. I have found Steve and his wife very helpful with finding equipment, making recommendations on what is best for me, and prices. They not only handle several brands of processors, but also enlargers and print dryers.

Steve

polyglot · Jun 20, 2011

jglass said:
Could you tell me who that seller is and let me know how your transaction goes. I'm looking for Jobo stuff also.

You can pm me if you want to . Thanks

I got the stuff from from kilgoretrout1979. Most of the things I bought were multi-item Buy-It-Nows ending about 5 hours ago, so I suspect that he'll re-list a bunch of stuff soon. Half the bits I bought (rollers, centre column) were new.

I'm sure Joboman is excellent too; he just didn't reply to my email before the items I saw (at prices notably better than most other auctions concurrently up for similar parts) were ending.

Sirius: my quantities are pretty low and I shoot mostly rollfilm so it'd take me a few years (unless I have a big phase-change and decide I like the field camera I don't yet have better than my RZ) to get it down to $2/sheet at the $450 most people are asking for a 3010. $250-300 I could probably survive though, or I might get a 3006, which often seems to be cheaper. Or hell, I might just try a 2509N, some people seem to be able to make them work!

markbarendt · Jun 20, 2011

I got some parts from a subscriber here. (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Sirius Glass · Jun 20, 2011

polyglot said:
Sirius: my quantities are pretty low and I shoot mostly rollfilm so it'd take me a few years (unless I have a big phase-change and decide I like the field camera I don't yet have better than my RZ) to get it down to $2/sheet at the $450 most people are asking for a 3010. $250-300 I could probably survive though, or I might get a 3006, which often seems to be cheaper. Or hell, I might just try a 2509N, some people seem to be able to make them work!

Then work with MF and wait until something wonderful comes along. Almost every time I went to buy something I was always out bid the first time. Then the same thing with better quality came by at a better price.

Steve

CatLABS · Jun 24, 2011

15XX system tanks have advantages and disadvantages compared to 25XX tanks.
the 250XX tanks uses less chemistry for smaller quantities of film per process, but get less efficient as you stack them up. the 1500 are better when loaded full or with extensions, but they do not allow for 4X5 reels...
also - i have found that even with a flat level processor the 1500 tanks as they are smaller are more prone to uneven developing on one end of the drum (usually the bottom end), where less active developer ends up due to the design of the tank, 2500 tanks suffer less from this issue.
there is also something to be said about convenience difference in loading 1501 reels vs 2502. matter of preference really. after you get used to it they are pretty much the same.
2509 reels give really amazing results, and after comparing them with 3010 drum results i am not sure it is worth the huge extra cost, however, 3010 drums use much much much less chemistry (about 50% less for same amount of film when fully loaded), which might be worth while calculating in to the total cost of purchasing and operating a drum. also of course - 3010 drums are ONLY for sheet film, where as with your multi tank 5 you can mix and match 1X2509 and 2X2502 reels at the same time, basically trying to say, its more flexible.

any other questions..? ask away!

CatLABS · Jun 24, 2011

also forgot to mention - you CANT use 1500 tanks without extension arms, same thing goes for expert drums (3010)

Diapositivo · Jun 25, 2011

krifartida said:
15XX system tanks have advantages and disadvantages compared to 25XX tanks.
the 250XX tanks uses less chemistry for smaller quantities of film per process, but get less efficient as you stack them up. the 1500 are better when loaded full or with extensions, but they do not allow for 4X5 reels...

also - i have found that even with a flat level processor the 1500 tanks as they are smaller are more prone to uneven developing on one end of the drum (usually the bottom end), where less active developer ends up due to the design of the tank, 2500 tanks suffer less from this issue.

(underlining is mine)

Doesn't the 25xx series use more chemicals than the 15xx series? My 1510 requires 140ml for 1 135/36 roll, and my 1520 requires 240ml for 2 135/36 rolls.

Regarding uneven development, could you explain better the part of the quote which I underlined? The bottom of the 15xx is almost flat, there is only a small niche which is filled by the base of the rod.

polyglot · Jun 25, 2011

I think he means that because the dev quantity is smaller, when the tank is tilted, the shallow end will be much shallower.

However, I don't see min-chem requirements as a limiting factor for me - for B&W I need more dev than the minima just so that it doesn't exhaust (300-500mL/roll) and for colour, I just chuck in 500mL+ then reuse it.

I've ordered some roller extensions and some core extensions that should let me do a few rolls at once; currently considering offering on a 3010 I've seen otherwise I'll buy a 2509N ($100) from joboman.

Роберт · Jun 25, 2011

The Jobo 25xx are made for rotary development. The 15xx in fact for inversion and they can be critiqual in rotary use.

For sheet film the 30xx are the best however if you have no problem with the loading system of the 2509N reel, 4x5" can be done in this way too.

Sirius Glass · Jun 25, 2011

Repeating from another thread:

Sirius Glass said:
PeteZ8 said:

Ok, I'm a little confused on this one here. I finally got around to getting my CPP-2 w/lift setup and decided to test it out by developing two rolls in a 1520 tank.

What I found was with the regular rollers, the tank was too small and it never came near the rollers. But when I put in the "extension" rollers, they were too tall, causing the tank to not sit level and the gears to make some horrendous noise. I compromised by not using the rollers at all, just letting it hang off of the white tabs and propping up the lift arm slightly to get the tank level (was drooping down a bit because of the play between the clips and the cog).

Obviously this is not something I want to do long term, so what is the solution? I like the 1520 tank but I do have the regular 2820 with reels as well. I guess I don't mind using that but for doing 2x135 films the 1520 is just perfectly sized.

Is there an adapter or special roller I am missing for the 1520?

Edit: Sorry mods, this should probably be in "Darkroom Equipment". Please feel free to move this for me. Thanks!

Click to expand...

Use the extensions, but turn them around so that they are not too high. See Attached Thumbnails.

Steve

CatLABS · Jun 25, 2011

it seems the user form the quoted post did not insert the extension arms all the way in to their slots, causing the tank to be too high.

but the attached diagram lives no room for error, if only poeple bothered to read the effing manual before they discovered stuff does not work...

even when 1500 tanks are filled beyond MAX capacity in rotation use, the films in any tank longer then 1520 will get more density on one end of the tank.
IE - when loading 5 35mm in 1520+1530 using lift, the films towards the base of the tank (away from the lift) with get less developer agitation resulting in lower density. it is not a consitent thing, but i have seen it range from non issue 1/3 stop to more then -1 stop compared to same type of film in top of tank (closer to lift). this ofcourse refers to BW only. i have not seen this in C-41 or E-6.
the bigger the tank, the greater the density gap between top and bottom. i will admit the biggest 2500 tank i used for film is multi tank 8 (2840) with 8X35mm (and the same with 2X2509 and 18 sheets of 4X5 which i did on a regualr basis for a long time) and i saw no noticeable density change from top to bottom, where as i went up to 10 rolls in 1510+3X1530, and there you can really see the films on the bottom end got less of everything. i tested this on other machines as well with similar, but as i said, not exact consistent results.

who ever runs a commercial lab process (as i did for a while) runs in to these issues. the simple way around it is to make smaller batches.

another thing - the chemical usage difference between 1500 and 2500 is pretty negligible unless you really do a million rolls a day so i take that comment back as irrelevant. however there is about a 30-40% difference between multitank 5 for sheet film and 3010 tanks. (560ml for max 12 plates 55ml per plate - VS 310ml for 10 plates 31ml per plate.)

Diapositivo · Jun 26, 2011

krifartida said:
even when 1500 tanks are filled beyond MAX capacity in rotation use, the films in any tank longer then 1520 will get more density on one end of the tank.
IE - when loading 5 35mm in 1520+1530 using lift, the films towards the base of the tank (away from the lift) with get less developer agitation resulting in lower density. it is not a consitent thing, but i have seen it range from non issue 1/3 stop to more then -1 stop compared to same type of film in top of tank (closer to lift). this ofcourse refers to BW only. i have not seen this in C-41 or E-6.

krifartida, this frankly leaves me a bit puzzled.

If the tank is perfectly horizontal, I don't see through which phenomenon the lower reels would get less agitation than the upper ones. If we except the time the developer takes to invade the tank, and to leave it, for the rest of the process the films should receive identical treatment. This difference should be constant between processes.

Are you sure you properly levelled the tank? I found out that putting the level anywhere on the CPP-2 does not level the tank at all. Also, the lift is a strange animal and the tank does not sit perfectly horizontal on the upper basin, I clearly see that my lift tends to "bounce back", if I want it to touch the upper (red) basin (and be levelled supposing the red basin is levelled) I have to press it with my finger. If you level the Jobo, the tank will end up working slightly "bottom up". I have re-levelled my Jobo and now the machine is not horizontal, but the tank is This levelling work is the more important, the longer the tank is.

CatLABS · Jun 26, 2011

the diameter of the tank, coupled with the shape of the funnel and i guess other design elements cause the liquid inside the tank to not travel to all areas of the tank equally. the i see that it is not consistent has to do with the fact that as you described even in a perfectly level machine or perfectly level tank the whole thing flexes under pressure. depending on the amount of chems, amount of films and even temperature, i think would affect the over all results and exasperate or reduce the density difference.

Jobo tank questions

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