Jobo LPL 7451 4x5 ??

I might have the chance to get an enalrger called "Jobo LPL 7451 4x5" for cheap. How much would you pay for a Jobo LPL 7451 4x5 enlarger? What would be a good price? Also, what is your experience/opinion with this this enlarger? Is it a good "allrounder" with good quality?

I think it's what Omega is selling now. I kind of remember a few people here buying one this year so you might want to do a search.

Worth depends on condition and what is included. Plus how interested the seller is in moving it.

Nick Zentena said:

I think it's what Omega is selling now. I kind of remember a few people here buying one this year so you might want to do a search.

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Who is Omega? Is it a apug forum member ?

Edit: Mh, maybe you are referring to http://www.omegasatter.com ? I don't see them selling that enlarger on their site.

http://www.omegasatter.com/

One of the two largest North American enlarger companies.

Nick Zentena said:

http://www.omegasatter.com/

One of the two largest North American enlarger companies.

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Looks like they are not selling it anymore ...

Generally, I would like to get a good allrounder wich I would mainly use for 6x9 and 6x7 prints. But I would still like to be equipped for 35mm and LF.

So here is another question:
What additional pieces would I need for other formats (except the negative carrier). Do I need another lense?
I also read something about changing the "diffusion chamber" instead of "condensor" for smaller formats, what's that, do I have to do that? And does that LPL 7451 have that ?

You will need different lenses for the various formats. Generally speaking;
35mm needs a 50 mm lens
6x6, 6x7 around 80mm
6x7, 6x9 around 100 mm
4x5 around 135 mm +

The differences are the size of lens's image circle, that is, the size of negative it can handle, and the magnification. The smaller the focal length, the greater the magnification.

Diffusion enlargers use a "mixing box" to even out the light, and in some cases, concentrate it for smaller negatives. Lots of people here only use the mixing box appropriate to the largest negative they print. It means less light through a smaller negative, but that isn't generally a big problem.

If you aren't making big prints I'd consider just getting an 105mm and a 150mm lens. Use the 105 for formats smaller then 4x5. Use the 150mm or a 135mm for 4x5.

50mm lenses are so cheap on the used market that you should get this for 35mm but you could make smallish prints with the 105mm if you wanted.

Over time you could keep an eye out for an 80mm lens for 6x6/6x7 but most 4x5 enlargers can make fair size enlargements with a 105mm.

Nick Zentena said:

If you aren't making big prints I'd consider just getting an 105mm and a 150mm lens. Use the 105 for formats smaller then 4x5. Use the 150mm or a 135mm for 4x5.

50mm lenses are so cheap on the used market that you should get this for 35mm but you could make smallish prints with the 105mm if you wanted.

Over time you could keep an eye out for an 80mm lens for 6x6/6x7 but most 4x5 enlargers can make fair size enlargements with a 105mm.

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How do I know what lenses are compatible with what enlargers. Is there some sort of standardized winding ?

Most modern lenses shorter then 105mm using a 39mm lens mount. Bigger then that it varies more. Usually you use a lensboard on the enlarger which the lens mounts to. Almost any lens can be mounted to most enlarger.

I am using a Saunders LPL 4550XLG enlarger with a color head. It is a wonderful machine. There is no reason this could not be your "all-around" enlarger.

The lensboards are around you just need to search them out sometimes.

The LPL 7451 enlarger is a good enlarger.

It will do many things and will easily do 35mm right through to 4x5 film.

You will need negative carriers for each neg size you wish to enlarge, or you can use the glass carrier which has two sheets of glass with which you sandwich the negative into.

Doing that you will just need one glass neg carrier, but it is better to have correct neg carrier sizes for each format.

The enlarger (I owned one many years ago) comes with two diffusion boxes, one for 4x5 and one for the smaller formats. I and many others just left the larger 4x5 diffusion box in the top all of the time. My current 4x5 enlarger also just has the 4x5 box in the head.

The 7451 enlarger can also be wall mounted if space is tight and/or you wish to make huge enlargements.

I had mine wall mounted and made my own drop table allowing me to make any sized of enlargement or cropping.

The 7452 which followed was a better enlarger with some nice extra pieces added, but the main difference between the two was the 50mm spacer which pushed the neg carrier system away from the column by 50mm. This allowed one to make full frame enlargements to maximum size with 4x5 film, something the original 7451 had a bit of a problem with.

I would suggest that if you are able to get this enlarger with some or all the neg carriers, then it is a good buy.

As to price, I don't know where in the world you are, so it's really a dart board situation.

In my country you could get one of these for anywhere between $50 to $500. They were about $2,500 new, without any lenses in this country.

One last piece of information, there is no possibility of aligning the enlarger. The enlarger is aligned from the factory and there are no adjustment systems to allow you to adjust if it's not square. If the enlarger has been dropped, or is obviously bent, don't touch it.

This alignment situation, is the weak point of all of the LPL enlargers I have owned (4 of them).

Mick.

Mick Fagan said:

One last piece of information, there is no possibility of aligning the enlarger. The enlarger is aligned from the factory and there are no adjustment systems to allow you to adjust if it's not square. If the enlarger has been dropped, or is obviously bent, don't touch it.

This alignment situation, is the weak point of all of the LPL enlargers I have owned (4 of them).

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To get the LPL home I will probably have to disassemble the panel (ground plate). Can that destroy the alignment? How damagable is the alignment and how exact does it have to be?

I have seen some enlargers where one can tilt the lense: Just like this one:

Is this how alignment issues can be balanced out?
Would you say, that such a titlable lense is generally an important feature?
Does the LPL in question have such a system?

How is the replacment parts / accessories situation for that LPL 7451 ? Are they still available new (preferably somewhere in europe?) or can be easily aqquired? I am not sure about what I will be needing but will I be able to get the following items for it easily?:

- lenses
- negative carriers (6x7, 6x9, 35mm)
- light bulb (I guess I need special ones)
- diffusion chamber
- power supply
- timer

The LPL 7451 has not been manufactured for many years, doesn't mean that there are not spares available as many of the pieces are interchangeable between the different models.

I don't think the 7451 allows sideways or wall projection, however I do know that you can take the whole head off the column and reverse it, allowing for floor projection from the rear.

There is one other piece of information I have just read from the 7451 instruction manual. I quote, " ATTENTION!

Head/carriage and column are custom-aligned.
make sure they have the same serial number."

end of quote.

Whilst I'm sure you should not find this an issue, it is a possibility, so check these numbers out. I don't know where the numbers are by the way, perhaps someone with one of these units may be able to tell you.

For travelling it is normal and an easy thing to undo the base board. The base board is held in place by four allen keyed bolts, about 5mm I think from memory.

I would remove anything that can be moved from the enlarger head itself. Things like the negative carrier, that slides in and out and anything else that can move. It is my bitter experience that when travelling in the back of a car these things can do a lot of damage from one slight bump or sharp corner.

Regarding alignment of the enlarger, the alignment issue is that one usually ensures that the negative carrier and lens are at 90 degrees to the base board, whilst being in parallel alignment with each other.

Most 4x5 enlargers allow you to check and alter these settings, the LPL enlargers don't. They are factory aligned, and their alignment from my experience is very good, but if the unit has suffered from a fall then a few mm here and/or there, cannot be pulled back without major engineering stunts.

You should have a power supply as well as either a colour module or a B&W module. The filter modules can be easily changed with a screw underneath which can be undone with a 1 Euro coin, it then slides forward and off. Takes about 1 minute to do.

For what it's worth, the weight I have here is 26.2 kg approximately. The baseboard is 60 x 60cm the column height is 1,260mm and if attached to the baseboard is 1,332mm.

Mick.