Jobo getting out of processors?

This is really sucky news ! I just bought a lift for my ancient CPA-2 processor. Maybe I should just try to locate a whole new processor to go along with the lift I just bought ??? My current one is quite old, and well used by the former owner (now deceased) so, the motor could shell out at any time.

Damn I hate digital and the consumer-gotta-have-it-now-don't-care-if-it-looks-like-crap-market. I can't decide if I should spend the money on the processor or dump everything (cameras/darkroom) and find a new hobby. I (we = apug members) keep pumping money into this and companies continue to cease production, or just go bankrupt, w/ little to no warning whatsoever. If I buy a new processor, will film be the next thing to die off 100% 2 years from now ???

My apologies for being so pissy. I don't mean to offend anyone here. I'm just so frustrated right now that my hands are even shaking.

Any input/advice is always appreciated. I just don't know if I should spend even more money or not.

SusanK

SusanK said:

I just don't know if I should spend even more money or not. Susan

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Consider: That 14 miles/gallon SUV somebody bought three
years ago with gas at $1.25 a gallon. That computer I almost
bought last year with only ONE processor. Damn. Dan

If you want a new processor, buy it now. On the other hand, Jobo is not going out of business, and I would expect them to supply spare parts for a very long time.

SusanK said:

If I buy a new processor, will film be the next thing to die off 100% 2 years from now ???

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Susan -
Film isn't going away altogether any time soon. Yes, the field might thin out some more and yet the per-shot cost will go up. I'm pretty sure the day is coming in the next 5 to 10 years that I will switch from buying pre-mixed liquids and powered chemistry to compounding my own because some formulation I like using will dissapear. I have already switched favorite films twice in the last few years because of end-of-life (EOL) issues or formulation changes.

Don't panic. Just realize that photography (analog or digital) is not a cheap hobby. If you enjoy using your Jobo and are nervous about spare parts then by all means prowl eBay, flea markets and garage sales for a spare. Stay alert and keep your eyes open.

To me, part of the alure of analog photography is that fewer and fewer people seem to do it. But on a very consistant basis I get asked how to do something (by "digital" people) or how to get a certain look/feel.

Relax and enjoy the ride. Take pride in the fact that you can produce enduring and asthetically pleasing works. And although I do hate to say it, try and stay current with the art. Maybe there will be something from the dark (digital) side you can take advantage of!

There are just too much old ATL/CPE/CPA/CPP systems on the market and almost no professional lab is using them anymore.
The "APUG" market is too small to keep a company alive for these film and paper processors.
Jobo will keep the supply of parts and spare parts for the future only the production of the ATL and CPXX machines are discontinued. At this moment only the (amateur) models CPE 2+ and CPP 2 are still in the official Jobo price list.
A small agitation processor is made by Heiland electronics, the TAS filmprocessor. About for the same price paid for a CPE 2+ and the elevator.
Can be equipped with Kindermann, Jobo 1510/1520/25XX, Paterson sys IV tanks. So 35mm, 120/220 roll film and 4X5" sheet film can be done.

http://www.heilandelectronic.de/html/english/products/tas_main.htm

Best regards,

Robert

Ya know... I feel as though I just got a cyberhug from several big brothers. Thanks guys, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your feedback and reassurance.

I spent yesterday afternoon pacing the house and swearing under my breath. I felt as though I'd lost a piece of my soul and literally teared up as I fell asleep last night. I'm 35 years old and sometimes I wish I'd been born later, so as to have digital be the "norm" in my life or, born earlier so as to have had more time to spend working with analog materials. My preference would be analog and to have been born earlier.

Again, I sincerely appreciate your responses,
SusanK

SusanK said:

Ya know... I feel as though I just got a cyberhug from several big brothers. Thanks guys, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your feedback and reassurance.

I spent yesterday afternoon pacing the house and swearing under my breath. I felt as though I'd lost a piece of my soul and literally teared up as I fell asleep last night. I'm 35 years old and sometimes I wish I'd been born later, so as to have digital be the "norm" in my life or, born earlier so as to have had more time to spend working with analog materials. My preference would be analog and to have been born earlier.

Again, I sincerely appreciate your responses,
SusanK

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I hear you Susan, I feel the same way. I am going on 38 and wish I was around during the golden era between the mid 1950-s to 1980's. It's the pull of our disposible culture that makes me sick. I am even more stubborn I am not quitting a hobby just because of some upheaval.

Bill

Well, fine art photographer I see.

There will be much less equipment available in the future for classical photography due to the fact it will be a niche product. Some multinationals will be disappearing from this market (Agfa, Kodak (?)) because it is not a mass product anymore. Let's hope some companies will survive this photograpic revolution and stay in business.

Any idea on pricing for this kit?

Fotohuis said:

There are just too much old ATL/CPE/CPA/CPP systems on the market and almost no professional lab is using them anymore.
The "APUG" market is too small to keep a company alive for these film and paper processors.
Jobo will keep the supply of parts and spare parts for the future only the production of the ATL and CPXX machines are discontinued. At this moment only the (amateur) models CPE 2+ and CPP 2 are still in the official Jobo price list.
A small agitation processor is made by Heiland electronics, the TAS filmprocessor. About for the same price paid for a CPE 2+ and the elevator.
Can be equipped with Kindermann, Jobo 1510/1520/25XX, Paterson sys IV tanks. So 35mm, 120/220 roll film and 4X5" sheet film can be done.

http://www.heilandelectronic.de/html/english/products/tas_main.htm

Best regards,

Robert

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We are selling for the German prices:

Eur. 798,00 incl. 19% Dutch VAT.

The basic unit, adapter for your tank system (in this case suitable
for 1510 , 1520 tanks, 25XX), full voltage range adapter and one external
memory card is included.
Optional some extra external memory cards and a new developed heating
device.

Not really cheap but the unit is made for surviving decades. Mechanically and also the inside electronics.

Long developing times (Rodinal, CG512 etc.) doesn't matter anymore. The thing beeps on each tumble and is beeping when it's going to it's end stage of each developing step. Really practical design. The temperature is also automatically corrected in the developing time.

Best regards,

Robert

Unless the Euro takes a really steep plunge against the dollar, I don't think you'll be selling too many of those in the US... Factor out the taxes and factor in the shipping, and you're looking at about 700 Euros, which is about $900-950 USD. That's the going price for a used Jobo CPP2 with lift, and maybe even a drum tossed in. And the Heiland device is limited to film processing only up to 4x5 film. Do you know if they have a direct US distributor?

Fotohuis said:

We are selling for the German prices:

Eur. 798,00 incl. 19% Dutch VAT.

The basic unit, adapter for your tank system (in this case suitable
for 1510 , 1520 tanks, 25XX), full voltage range adapter and one external
memory card is included.
Optional some extra external memory cards and a new developed heating
device.

Not really cheap but the unit is made for surviving decades. Mechanically and also the inside electronics.

Long developing times (Rodinal, CG512 etc.) doesn't matter anymore. The thing beeps on each tumble and is beeping when it's going to it's end stage of each developing step. Really practical design. The temperature is also automatically corrected in the developing time.

Best regards,

Robert

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Well most people who are buying such a developing machine have already more developing tanks of the mentioned possible brands, so you order the appropriate version.

About Heilands distributors:
http://www.heilandelectronic.de/html/english/distributors_main.htm

Versalab for the USA.

Indeed due to the high Euro rate it will be difficult for selling them outside Europe.

best regards,

Robert

SusanK said:

I'm 35 years old and sometimes I wish I'd been born later, so as to have digital be the "norm" in my life or, born earlier so as to have had more time to spend working with analog materials.

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I understand Susan. I'm 51 and have had a life long love affair with film. I see digital as a poor substitute, but as a color landscape photographer I wonder how long I will be continue to pull my beloved transparencies.

but as a color landscape photographer I wonder how long I will be continue to pull my beloved transparencies.

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I do not hope so for you. 38 years I am dealing with film and I am feeling the same but the reality is that E-6 will be the first type of film which will be (maybe) obselete.

Nice landscapes by the way on your web site. It seems to be next holiday must be on Hawaii.
Or sending a poster which will have the same feeling together with the temperatures at the moment here.

roteague said:

I understand Susan. I'm 51 and have had a life long love affair with film. I see digital as a poor substitute, but as a color landscape photographer I wonder how long I will be continue to pull my beloved transparencies.

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Like Robert, I too have been shooting transparencies for a long time, probably for well over 30 years. I am only slightly older than Robert, and would/will certainly miss the opportunity to use this medium in the future.

Rich

Well Susan, I am not using much of the Jobo products but I definitely (at 34 years young) can relate to your feeling, kind of being "in-between", but no way I am going to give up the darkroom magic. Like someone said somewhere: "once you know, you can never go back".

More on-topic, I think we're in a dip-down period, but I do hope that things will level out and equipment and materials still would still be around and if more expensive, at least affordable by those of us who want to pursue the art. In many ways, it's up to us, really.

Rich, great landscapes and beautiful colors on your web site. I can imagine you prefer mainly shooting on slide material for your job. Let's all hope for the best in this matter.

I read the thread and thought about a new processor. I needed a new pump for my 2500. They wanted $320 for the pump here in the US, I found it in an auto parts online store for $104 including shipping.

I inquired about a new processor. $14,500 US. hmm, I think not. I, perhaps, have become a little spoiled. I used to do all this in trays. Looks like I may be heading back to it.

Time will tell.

The news, however, will certainly not stop me from enjoying film. (Black and white that is, the only 2 colors one really needs! [Just kidding there Robert and Rich])

Fotohuis said:

Rich, great landscapes and beautiful colors on your web site. I can imagine you prefer mainly shooting on slide material for your job. Let's all hope for the best in this matter.

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Thanks very much for the kind comments regarding my photos. Yes, most certainly I prefer using transparency material which probably accounts for about 99.9% of my photography.

Rich

The news, however, will certainly not stop me from enjoying film. (Black and white that is, the only 2 colors one really needs! [Just kidding there Robert and Rich])

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Fortunately I know who is saying this......
But monochrome can be also very spectaculair if you want to focus on the subject.

Sad if you see those beautiful pictures on large format that Fuji the Netherlands decided last year to drop their whole line of Fuji sheet film because they couldn't sell it any more overhere.

Hands down.... you are the most supportive group I've ever had the pleasure of bumping into !!!

I've spent the past hour (it's a slow day at work) keeping an eye on this thread, as well as searching others for information about Pyrocat HD in a Jobo processor. Wow, have I ever learned a lot. My attitude has definitely swung back around to being positive. I'll be ordering some Pyrocat HD in Glycol soon (I learned in one of the threads that P-cat HD in Glycol has a longer shelf life and b/c I work a day job, I don't shoot/process enough film to utilize the P-cat HD in water before it dies).

I'm also considering pulling out the plastic to purchase a new CPP processor while they're still available. My theory being: 1) I don't have the time to babysit an eBay auction, and 2) I want a processor that's going to last, not one that's had half it's useful life burned up by someone who may not have taken good care of it. I hate credit card debt but, at 35 years old, I have plenty of working years ahead of me to pay it off. Now, if the Oriental light head on my enlarger doesn't die, I'll be set... otherwise, I'm looking at $2500 for an Aristo light head. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Another thread that caught my interest was Zero Image 2000 pinhole cameras. Gorgeous cameras and very interesting images that come out of them. I've enjoyed reading everyone's opinion on the change in creative perspective that pinholes can offer.

One quick question on the Pyrocat HD in a Jobo.... from what I've read, I gather that I'm looking at processing dilution/times/temps for FP4+ (EI-100) of:

2:2:100 (I use 500ml of developer),
68 degrees,
5 min. rotary prewash,
9 min. develop (-20% if I do a long exposure at EI-64),
30 second water wash,
5 min. Ilford rapid fix,
NO rebath,
20 min. water wash

This is how I've processed FP4+ w/ PMK. If I'm wrong, please correct me. I'll shoot a few rolls in my backyard and process them before busting my butt to get a composition that I'd like to put on my website and then potentially screw it up in processing.

My heartfelt thanks to all of you ! Yesterday I was ready to dump everything and say, 'To heck with it!' Deep down that's not at all what I want to do. I enjoy my time in the field and in the darkroom.... the learning curve.... the frustration of figuring out why a print isn't working out the way I envisioned.... and the 'No one can touch this!' feeling when the same print finally does come together. There's a sense of pride in the effort that analog photography requires, pride that no one w/ a digital point-and-shoot camera will ever comprehend.

SusanK

Fotohuis said:

Fortunately I know who is saying this......
But monochrome can be also very spectaculair if you want to focus on the subject.

Sad if you see those beautiful pictures on large format that Fuji the Netherlands decided last year to drop their whole line of Fuji sheet film because they couldn't sell it any more overhere.

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Yes, Robert and I know Robert Hall fairly well and we can take his ribbing. He is really a good guy.

I hope that you are able to get Fuji Sheet film then through perhaps Great Britain, Germany, or perhaps France. It would be too expensive to send it from the US. I would guess that Robert White might be a good source, but I have never checked his site for film.

Rich

SusanK said:

I'm also considering pulling out the plastic to purchase a new CPP processor while they're still available.

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Yes, this is a good choice. I have been thinking of recommending the CPP2 to you, because it is so versatile. Perhaps if you shop around a little, you can get a good deal on one.

@ Robert Hall: I didn't know you were I.R. specialist. They look really good. I can only suggest to try the Rollei IR-400 film, available in 35mm, 120 roll film and 4X5". (Monochrome only... )

@ Susan: To give you an indication of the German Jobo price list:
CPE 2+ #4065: Eur. 599,-
CPP 2 #4080: Eur. 1380,-
Elevator : Eur. 217,-

On the NL-marktplaats you can find a used CPE (2) for less than Eur. 100,00
The CPP (2) model sometimes for less than Eur. 300,00.
Same on some German web sites.
The problem is how to ship/pay and the reliability which is not always too good.
I have a good contact with a former Jobo employee (the ATL specialist at Jobo) who is also dealing with good second hand and overhauled Jobo stuff. Jobo had to fire a lot of good skilled workers last years to survive.

I would guess that Robert White might be a good source,

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I know them very well. It is only a pity that transport from UK is the triple cost than from Germany or from the Czech Republic.