jobo drums

i have just started in lf and as yet not tried to develope my film. my question is i have just got a jobo cpa and a few drums to process with . is there some clips i need to hold the film in the drums or do i have to make something the drums i have are a 2840 with magnet base and a 4201 drum ihave seen the drums with the reels like the 35/120 roll film holders but nothing to hold film around the drum .thanks in advace ,wayne

Jobo make or rather made 5x4 spirals that fitted the 2000 & 2300 series of drums, others as well. They are sometimes available on ebay. I got my 2nd drum and spirals by posting a wanted advert on this site. Each spiral holds 6 sheets of 5x4 and 2 spirals fit in each of my 2000 series tanks using 2 litres of dev with inversion agitation

Ian

4x5 I'm assuming. 2509N is the current reel which fits the 2521 and bigger drums.

The 2840 is a print drum. It can be converted to a film drum but by the time you buy the centre column and funnel you'll have spent the price of a used film drum. If you're doing larger sheet film then the print drum works.

Assuming your 2840 drum is the same as mine, that is, it is a two piece drum, then you can use the bottom part of the drum for rotary processing 4x5 film as I do.

You will need a 2509 reel (I have this) or a later 2509N reel (it has clips making film slippage a thing of the past, I'm told)

I cannot remember the length of the centre core for the 2840 drum but if there is a centre core that fits inside the bottom part of the drum that is the one. The centre core from the 1520 drum is the same size and same thing!

The bottom part of the 2840 drum is also sold as a film test drum for 4x5 film. Why that name was used is a mystery to me, but that was the original name it was given in the first brochure I have for the 2800 series of drums.

I develop 4 sheets of 4x5 at a time using rotary processing, works a treat.

Mick.

Ya the bottom part of the 2840 is same size of the 2521. It's called a test drum because you use it for test strips. It's not a test film drum. I can't remember if the test drum has the paper ridges or not. The 2521 won't.

Mick Fagan said:

You will need a 2509 reel (I have this) or a later 2509N reel (it has clips making film slippage a thing of the past, I'm told)

Click to expand...

The clips on the 2509N are also designed to break up and randomize the developer flow during rotation, not just hold the film more securely. I quit using the Jobo for 4x5 because the original 2509 reels caused strong flow mark patterns with my chosen film and developer and the slow rotation speed originally recommended with film in the CPE2.

Lee

What's the best Jobo setup to process 8 X 10 C41? That's all I'd be using it for as I can't find anyone locally (Tulsa, OK) to process.

Best? An Expert drum with a big enough processor.

CPA2 or CPP2 with a 3005 Expert drum - the 3005 is specifically designed to handle 5 sheets of 8x10 at a time. The CPA or CPP are required for using Expert drums - the CPE can't take a lift that will engage the drive cogs. The CPA has 1 degree accuracy in its thermostat. The CPP has .1 degree accuracy, and also has a cold-water solenoid valve. If a CPP is in your budget, it is the best tool for the home darkroom. If you cannot afford a CPP, a CPA will do.

Unfortunately Jobo has discontinued all but the ATL line

The ATL will work well, but is very costly

You'll have to find a good used CPP (or CPE) on that auction site. Watch the shipping. I purchased a second good used CPP last year for backup parts when I heard Jobo was considering discontinuing....the seller packed in huge oversize box with tons of styro beans and tried to get me to pay $180.00 shipping. Reasonable shipping is tighter box with beanies, running around $45.00. (including lift). UPS rates are by dimensions, and go up quickly if oversize.

hi everybody thanks for all your replys i will use the smaller part with a reel cant wait to get cracking thanks once again ,wayne

Hi Wayne !
Do you own film tanks from Jobo in the 1500 serie ?
If yes, get the funnel from the top of the 1500 tank, put it in the top of the 2800 tank, replacing the beaker, then get the center core of the 1500 tank that is long enough for the 2800 tank and voila ! You've got a 2521 tank ...
All parts are standard and few in numbers, so the whole system is flexible ! Clever !

Lee, that is interesting about the flow pattern with the 2509 original reels and the later with the clips.

I have the first model CPE2 with the two speeds. I use the bottom of the 2840 drum, one original 2509 reel, the duo centre core from the 1520 tank, the 1500 tank funnel (as mentioned by Georges) and I run it on the slow speed for all film developing.

I've developed 4x5 film in E6, C41, B&W reversal, B&W films of all persuasions and Kodak colour print film, which is C41 process but you expose it with a colour neg in an enlarger to end up with a 4x5 transparency.

I have had no agitation or flow mark problems with any films. I would expect to see density differences with either E6 or C41 print film if there were flow problems.

Those E6 and colour print films were made for commercial purposes over a period of about 8 years, for a couple of local professional photographers. They used me to process their films, rather than the pro-labs because of my consistency.

I also submitted my 4x5 C41 print film transparencies to two agencies, one in Australia, the other in the UK. I never had stuff rejected because of any developing problems, content though, is another matter.

The only time I have have problems with a 2509 reel is if you either load 6 sheets at a time, or, you load two sheets on adjoining slots. I always load 4 sheets, using the inner and outer slots only.

Mick.

Mick Fagan said:

Lee, that is interesting about the flow pattern with the 2509 original reels and the later with the clips.

Click to expand...

Mick,

I purchased the CPE-2 when I was in Germany for a year in '82-83. Our landlady said I could develop film in the bathroom when we made our arrangements. After my first roll of film, she said I had to use the unheated basement. So I was forced to do something like the CPE-2 in order to develop film at all. The CPE-2 produced flow marks on 35mm, 120, and 4x5 using the developers I tried, which would have been Rodinal 1:100 and HC-110. This was when Jobo was recommending the slow rotational speed and not mentioning the 5 minute presoak they came up with later. I also tried the 4 sheet arrangement you use. Within 18-24 months Jobo were pushing a new processor and tanks, another $1500 minimum investment as the way to be assured of highest quality 4x5 results. In the meantime, after 4 months, we got a long delayed first paycheck from the German university system and moved to a place where I had a heated bathroom to work in. I never found the Jobo worth pursuing for film after the initial poor experience. It was great for color printing with Cibachrome and Kodak EP-2 materials later.

Years later, when checking on the internet, I found that Jobo had changed all their recommendations, fast rotational speed, minimum 5 minute presoak, a new reel 2509N with the deflector/retainer clips, and they redesigned the spiral reels as well. Mine just have radial spokes, no solid spiral channels, and those produced standing waves at slow speed, clearly visible as flow marks on 35mm and 120, with varying spacing with the widening radial spoke spacing between the inner and outer parts of the reel.

I did a quick experiment with Rodinal 1:100 a couple of years ago, Pan-F replacing the original Panatomic-X, Rodinal 1:100, same reels as before, but with the 5 minute presoak and faster rotational speed recommended a year or two after I got my setup. Those negatives came out fine. But with a heated darkroom, I just do stainless hand tanks because the setup, breakdown, drying, etc involved with the Jobo is too much bother, and I don't have enough room to leave it in a state of readiness.

I'm not anti-JOBO. I just had a combination of early, insufficient instructions, and bad luck with my chosen film/developer combinations in a system that I was "forced" into buying by circumstances beyond my control. In the days before the internet, keeping up with these sorts of issues was tougher. I also bought in Germany and moved back to the US, so I wasn't registered with Jobo USA and didn't get the newsletters they were sending out that addressed all these issues. Other folks obviously have had great success with the system at all stages, and the same kinds of vagaries are also rife with hand tanks, as the many threads here on APUG show. I still have to think that others were having the same issues as I had, given the design changes to the reels and the changed recommendations for presoak and rotation speed. BTW, Jobo USA was great about advice and supplying me with the proper transformer, fuse, and heating element as parts to convert my CPE-2 to US AC power myself.

Lee

Lee, once again very interesting. I agree that information was extremely scarce in the early 80's which is when I bought my Jobo. magazines and brochures were about the only way to get information.

I have never used a pre-wet for any B&W or colour film processed with my Jobo. I did use a pre-wet for colour printing (EP2) but eventually stopped that, when flocculant in the water caused problems with Agfa paper.

I don't particularly like Rodinal and HC110 has never been much used by me either. Generally I have nearly always used D76 or ID11. Currently, and for the last 18 years, I have used D76 from scratch.

Mick.

Mick Fagan said:

I don't particularly like Rodinal and HC110 has never been much used by me either. Generally I have nearly always used D76 or ID11. Currently, and for the last 18 years, I have used D76 from scratch.

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I like Rodinal 1:100 with slow films like Panatomic-X, Pan-F, Efke 25, and it was the first developer that I liked with TMX (first version). I also added a little sodium sulfite during that period. I used HC-110 with VP-120 and B&W sheet film. I love D76 1:1 with Tri-X. I tend to match developers to certain films and shooting styles. I chose liquid concentrates for the year in Germany to make life easier, and before I lost the use of a warm bathroom, not to match the unforseen Jobo processing. I was just trying to cope and get some work done with what I had on hand. Getting too far off topic here.

It is much nicer these days to have the internet for searching out up to date information. Or out of date info, like a couple of the films I've just mentioned. I scarfed up all the info I could find on the Jobo USA website after I got back into shooting more B&W again a few years ago, coinciding with my two boys getting old enough for me to get into the darkroom for enough time to process a roll or two, and show them the ropes as well.

Lee