Jobo CPP 4111 Questions (+image)

Hi All,

I have been offered for sale the following Jobo CP 4111 kit:



I know absolutely nothing about these machines, I have up to now been doing my processing by hand in metal tanks. I have a couple of questions:

• The seller claims that it' 100% complete and in working order - basically what you see in the image. Does it appear to be? For example, are there any other attachments / probes / wires / gadgets that this thing needs that I would be missing?
• My primary interest in this thing is to develop 4x5in film, B&W, as well as exploring E-6 processing at home. The secondary benefit, I guess, is the possibility of doing larger prints that what I can currently with trays.
• Which film processing tank(s) would fit into this thing (if any)? I understand this is an older generation of Jobo machine.

Otherwise, any recommendations or shared experiences would be much appreciated. The machine is not close enough for me to inspect, so I will be buying "blind". The price will be about $180 (with a free Fujimoto enlarger thrown in, that I do not need...) - worth it? It's far enough to be a weekend-away drive for me, however!

Thank you in advance for your shared expertise - this forum is a wonderful resource.

Yes, this is a very old generation Jobo rotary processor.
If you want seriously do sheet film (4x5"- 5x7" or 8x10") you have to go to their Expert drums. But these (30xx) drums will only fit into the newer models CPA-2 and CPP-2 processors. Also the temperature regulation is more precise,+/- 0,2C. And these processors can be equipped with an elevator which is very handy in short developing times like C41 and E6.

This is my setup: CPA-2 with elevator. I modified the unit with the latest elevator model from Jobo. Costs about Eur. 200,00 for the whole unit plus (new) elevator. Also a re-circulation pump is built in and the temperature regulation is indeed very precise.



best chance is on German E-bay or Dutch marktplaats.nl

When I try to view this image, my site adviser tells me that this is a suspicious image and should not be viewed or otherwise visited. I would like to view it up close, but the image is restricted on my computer due to suspicious activity at the source.

It looks interesting and I would like to examine it more closely, but I cannot. I take these warnings seriously.

PE

The picture is hosted at deviantart.net, where, besides the legitimate activity, in the past a certain number of assholes published pirated photographs and illustrations as if they where their own. I wouldn't be surprised if the practice were still alive. In this case the site seems to only perform the function that ordinarily sites like Flickr or Picasa would perform, it provides an external link for an image.

In principle a JPEG image cannot be "suspicious" (as in carrying a virus or a trojan horse) because a JPEG in principle does not contain any code and therefore cannot transmit any infection. In practice in the past Microsoft had the bad habit of delivering programs which could execute VBScript code embedded anywhere, and this created the problem of viruses spread through file formats that in principle should never be able to do so, because the program which is used to read the file should in principle not execute any code, only read the file.

I have disabled all the "site advisers" as it is my experience that the advice is actually crowd-sourced and therefore quite unreliable. Some people which forward paranoid crusades against tracking cookies would not hesitate to flag a site as suspicious just because it sends a tracking cookie. Some other people might have flagged deviantart.net as suspicious because, as said, some people sells through it material for which they do not retain the copyright.

The site can be suspicious as far as those two matters are concerned, but the Jobo machine should be valid nonetheless

Photo Engineer said:

When I try to view this image, my site adviser tells me that this is a suspicious image and should not be viewed or otherwise visited. I would like to view it up close, but the image is restricted on my computer due to suspicious activity at the source.

It looks interesting and I would like to examine it more closely, but I cannot. I take these warnings seriously.

PE

Click to expand...

Seriously? This is simply a hosted image from deviantart.com, a place like flickr.com where millions host their images. My entire gallery is hosted there - has been for years (safely). You can view the image from the page here:

Dead Link Removed

Any insights as to the machine would be appreciated Specifically, the actual dev tanks for 4x5in that will fit it, etc. How does the machine measure water temperature - internally, or does something plug into the front panel?

I really want to get into E6 4x5in development myself (been doing B&W exclusively for years) - and I am hoping this machine might be the ticket?

I think you might be disappointed with this Jobo for 4x5. The problem is those tanks probably will not take standard 2509 4x5 reels. They look like early Jobo tanks that are different I believe. But I could be wrong..anyone know about these old Jobo tanks?

My latest version of McAfee Site adviser (upgraded with a full restart just today before going to this photo) warned me that the site hosting the image was trying to do something and was being blocked until I gave the OK to go ahead. I backed out.

PE

Photo Engineer said:

My latest version of McAfee Site adviser (upgraded with a full restart just today before going to this photo) warned me that the site hosting the image was trying to do something and was being blocked until I gave the OK to go ahead. I backed out.

PE

Click to expand...

Photo Engineer, I really appreciate the effort - but trust me - there is nothing harmful or dangerous about one of the world's largest (if not the largest) art hosting sites. Secondly, if you use a safer (non-microsoft) browser, you should have even less to worry about.

Anyway, the best I can do, is route you to a google image search for this processor (click).

Domaz, you seem to think that I would be out of luck with this processor for developing 4x5in film - what would you recommend instead? I would like something that can both do film, and large print drums, if possible.

I'm using Mozilla V 4.x, the most recent download.

All I'm doing is reporting what happened. Sorry.

PE

The general working principle of this machine seems to be, from the picture, like the one of the CPP-2 and similar processors. There are two basins with water. The lower basin keeps the chemical at the right temperature. The upper basin keeps the tank at the right temperature. A water heater coupled to a thermostat keeps the water, and therefore all the "system", at a certain temperature.

From what I see this should work like a Jobo processor without "lift". The tank is coupled to the processor via a magnet. The operator must manually detach the tank from the processor (winning the small resistance opposed by the magnet), open the lid, empty the tank, fill the tank, close the lid, couple again the tank with the processor, "countdown" the process time etc.

In a Jobo CPP-2 (the best in this kind of technology) there is a pump which circulates the water between the upper and lower basin, and a water heater which is controlled by a thermostat with a digital display, the temperature can be set every 0.1 °C and it generally oscillates for a few tenths of seconds some 0.3 or 0.4 °C on both sides of the desired temperature (total temperature excursion measured by the machine reaches 0.6 or 0.8 °C at most). This is the temperature at the thermostat. I suppose the temperature excursion on the whole mass of the processor, and on the chemicals inside the plastic bottles, is much more contained.

What makes the difference in these kind of processors is:

- how much torque the motor has, and which is the maximum size of a compatible tank;
- how precise is the thermostatic regulation;
- how many slots for water and chemicals do you have.

I wouldn't worry about the number of slots, for E-6 the only critical temperature is the one of the first development. You can keep all other baths warm within a certain temperature range (33 - 39 °C) so no problem there.

As far as the first two points are concerned, you should seek information about this machine to see if it can satisfy your needs.

Other processors, like the Jobo ATL series or another called Phototherm IIRC, can operate all the chemical and water changes automatically. I use a Jobo CPP-2 and I find that I don't need a more automated processor as I would execute one batch per day, maximum two per day. A complete E-6 process lasts for around 40 minutes of which only the first 7:30 (first development) are critical. During the rest of the time you can operate "loosely": you can answer a phone call, or going to the bathroom, or clean your kitchen...

Hi Dawid

Just out of curiosity, whereabouts is this machine and what price (ek is te lui om die prys in Rand om te skakel!) & where did you get to know of this (junkmail?), seeing as I haven't seen this one.

groete
Ricus

Since LF sheet processing matters to you, find out if you can use a 3010 tank with this processor. I don't think you can, and I think you should hold out for a processor that supports the 30xx Expert tanks since everyone seems to agree that all of the other Jobo options for 4x5 produce visibly less even development. At a minimum, find out whether the tanks can take 2509 reels and what reels are included with the processor.

Thank you all for the informative replies - it has been extremely helpful. The seller is not very knowledgeable, but I will try and find out if it supports the Jobo Expert 3xxx drums. If not, I will hold out for one that does (e.g. CPP-2).

On another note, on German eBay, I saw one of the machines I am interested in sell for about $60! (so they are available for really cheap now and then...)

Ricus, this was in the local Junkmail newspaper, yes. The price would be around ZAR 1000.

polyglot said:

Since LF sheet processing matters to you, find out if you can use a 3010 tank with this processor. I don't think you can, and I think you should hold out for a processor that supports the 30xx Expert tanks since everyone seems to agree that all of the other Jobo options for 4x5 produce visibly less even development. At a minimum, find out whether the tanks can take 2509 reels and what reels are included with the processor.

Click to expand...

+1

I perfer the 3010 Expert Drum to the 2509 reels for 4"x5".

Steve

Not that long ago, Jobo had an excellent site that had information about all their darkroom equipment, after they stopped making said equipment. It also had FAQs, tips & answered questions, IIRC, I think it was based in Ann Arbor, Mi. From all my searches, I have not been able to find hide nor hair of it. What happens to closed sites? Do all those electrons just go bouncing along into the either? Does the Library of Congress, or some similar origination save them for the historical record as books & other artifacts have been retained. Or has someone w/ an interest in the photo darkroom saved the site. If I had known before hand that it was going to close, I would have saved it on my hard drive. It was really a wonderful site.
The question is: Is there anyway to obtain all the data contained on that site. That site would have answered many if not all the questions posed here.
Thanks JD

J Drew said:

...
What happens to closed sites? Do all those electrons just go bouncing along into the either? Does the Library of Congress, or some similar origination save them for the historical record as books & other artifacts have been retained. Or has someone w/ an interest in the photo darkroom saved the site. If I had known before hand that it was going to close, I would have saved it on my hard drive. It was really a wonderful site.
The question is: Is there anyway to obtain all the data contained on that site. That site would have answered many if not all the questions posed here.
Thanks JD

Click to expand...

archive.org's Wayback Machine (http://wayback.archive.org/web/) indexes and stores most of the web, and enables you to browse past versions of websites (similar to the library of congress, yes - but it is very difficult to find sites that you do not know the URL for. Can you remember the base URL?

I found some old service bulletins and users manuals here:

http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_analog/us_analog/index.html

I don't see anything about the 4111 though.

The Jobo USA site was http://www.jobo-usa.com/ but it is down. There was an analog section where all the goodies were. One URL I have recoreded was http://www.jobo-usa.com/toc-search.htm, so you might try that in the wayback machine.

The omegabrandess.com site may have some info as they took over as distributor of Jobo products in the US. I haven't looked.