Jobo CPE2 without lift, possible to use cog gear lid tanks?

[Arthur Fleischmann]

I am thinking about getting a Jobo CPE2 processor to develop 4x5 colour negative films. I understand I need a Multitank 2 or Multitank 5 and one or two 2509n reels. I have been looking for these tanks on eBay and often they are offered with the cog gear lids, not the regular lids which are sealed with caps. I'm wondering if a tank with a cog gear lid can be equipped with a magnet and used on a CPE2 without the lift? Or will the rotation force the chemicals out of the uncovered opening?

 

[glbeas]

I've used tanks with the cog lid and an added magnet for prints. The cog can be forced off and a regular lid added, just don't expect to put the cog back on! You shouldn't have so much liquid inside the tank that it spills out when on it's side as the cog system runs on it's side with no lid.
I prefer having a lid though as it's less messy.
I think I got a lid from Adorama for the cog tank I had.

 

[Arthur Fleischmann]

Thanks Gary!

I was thinking maybe not having to remove the lid every time when swapping chemicals might be less of a hassle, as well. Also, I read that one benefit of the lift was that it allows pouring in chemicals while the tank is rotating. And - probably a stupid idea, but here it is anyway... - wouldn't it be possible to use a flexible tube slightly smaller in diameter than the opening of the cog lid, attach a cone to the tube, insert the loose end of the tube into the opening of the tank while it's rotating, then pour in the developer, effectively simulating the lift? Of course the tank would still have to be removed to be emptied... But I think I read somewhere that when processing C41 what's most critical is timing and agitation during the development phase (bleaching, fixing are supposed to be less critical) especially to quickly start rotation after pouring the developer into the tank...

Well, I might still end up with a CPE2 with a lift, that is if I can find one for not too much money. I have looked on eBay but no luck so far.

 

[cschweda]

If you're interested in a CPE2, be sure to make sure it's one of the later models if you plan on adding a lift at a later point. I made the mistake of obtaining a nearly new CPE2 -- but it was an early model with a different spindle. My later model lift didn't fit -- and OmegaSatter was unable to provide me with the part. The lift kit for the CPE2 doesn't include the parts for the early model CPE2 (although it indicates that you might need an additional part -- and gives the part number -- but it was no longer available.)

I recommend looking for a CPE2+. This has a better motor, a better reversal mechanism, a better thermostat, and can readily be adapted to a lift at a later time.

Now I have a CPE2 (without lift) and a CPE2+ with lift. I used the CPE2 for a while and didn't mind working without the lift. You're right about needing the normal lids, though -- and then attaching a magnet at the bottom of the tank (as opposed to the lift-required cog at the top of the tank).

I've just recently started processing C-41, and while using the CPE2 without the lift was fine, the lift does make things much easier -- and much more consistent. I've been doing 35mm, 120, and 4X5s in the various tanks -- with and without the lift. No issues.

I'm still amazed at how easy color developing is. I wish I'd never listened to all the folks warning me about the "difficulty" of color. The jobos are great at temp control -- it's remarkably on the money for both of my units -- so the processing is simple.

 

[Arthur Fleischmann]

Hey cschweda, thanks that's good to know! Is there an easy way to tell if a CPE2 unit is an old or new built? I saw some CPE2s sell on eBay and the part on the left where the control knobs are located was white not black, I assumed those were earlier models.

I'll try to find a CPE2+ to be on the safe side. Problem is, I live in a small country (Austria) and finding any Jobo processor locally is very unlikely, so I basically depend on eBay. I guess I just need to be patient and wait for a good offer. The other day I spotted a CPE2+ including lift, 2500 tank and sheet film reel on eBay UK - would have been just perfect for me! It sold for 200 GBP (about 220 Euros) which I would have been willing to pay, but shipping would have cost me another 100 GBP... that was just a bit too much. Anyway, if someone from Europe who wants to get rid of his/her CPE2 is reading this, just PM me. ;-)

But back to my original question, you are saying the tanks with cog lids cannot be used without the lift? Sorry, don't know if I understood you correctly.

May I also ask which chemicals you are using for C41? I could get either Tetenal or Fuji Hunt (seperate bleach and fix). So it's not that difficult after all? That's encouraging? Have you loaded the 4x5 reel with 6 sheets (I read some people got uneven development and recommend only loading 4 sheets in one reel). Anyway, I really look forward to processing C41 myself, be independent from lab prices (a lab here in Vienna just raised the price for processing 1 (one) 4x5 sheet of colour negative film to 6.50 Euros!)

 

[cschweda]

I'm using Arista's liquid C-41 chemicals. I've been re-using the chemicals -- not doing one-shot which I probably should do for optimal quality -- but I've found the color after 17 rolls (from the single quart mix) to be superb. No (apparent) problems or color shifts yet with the re-use. I'm careful to squeeze out the air from the bottles, so I suspect that may help a bit. Plus, I've only been using this first batch for 10 days or so. Not sure how much more I can get out of it.

I'm doing 35 and 120 in the 15xx drum -- and I'm using the larger 25xx drum (with custom plastic dividers) for the 4x5s. I can do two 4x5s at a time. That's fine with me -- but I know the reel with the sheet film loader can do more at a time. I just haven't had the inclination to pay much more into the system. What I have now works -- and I'm just experimenting for consistency at this point.

In terms of the cog lids, I'll check for sure, but the lids have an opening for the filling and draining with the lift -- and if the lift spout is not there to plug the hole, I'm assuming the chemicals will spill out of the cog lid.

See my earlier thread about my CPE2 woes for the actual link to the jobo page with the specific differences between the CPE2 and CPE2+. I just googled for the link, but I'm not finding it.

 

[Dave Dawson]

http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/catalog/Film+Darkroom/

Might help......Cheers Dave

 

[Arthur Fleischmann]

Thanks Dave, looks like many accessories are actually still being offered new, that's great!

cschweda, thanks again for your taking the time, much appreciated! If you want to store the working solutions for some time you might consider using Tetenal Protectan gas, I used this in the past for B&W developer, it's a bit expensive but one can lasts forever. I have read about using spacers to process 4x5 sheet film in (paper) drums here, might try this out! Regarding the different CPE2 models, I am aware of the differences between the CPE2 and CPE2+, but shouldn't the lift fit also the CPE2 (not plus) if it's a more recent model? Hmmm...

 

[cschweda]

The lift will fit the CPE2 if the CPE2 is a recent model. The key is to look at the CPE2's shaft. My (very old) CPE2 had a straight shaft. The connecting gear that came with my CPE2 lift had a cog for a *tapered* shaft. In theory, yes -- the newer CPE2's should have this tapered shaft.

But apparently Jobo *did* make a cog for the older models -- they just didn't include it in the CPE2/CPE2+ lift kit. They included a little paper insert talking about it -- and suggested contacting Jobo for the proper part. Obviously, this isn't possible now. Jobo directed me to OmegaSatter -- and OmegaSatter can't obtain the part. (They're very slow about email, too.)

It's a bit crazy, I know -- and a bit annoying (since we're talking about a single spindle here that appears to be the incompatible culprit!) -- but the end result is great. Even without the lift, the CPE2 is a great, quick way to get good results!

 

[Arthur Fleischmann]

Ok, I think I understand now... So it's probably hard to tell from pictures (thinking eBay auctions) wether a CPE2 will take the lift or not. I might contact Jobo in Germany and ask them if they can tell me more (which serial number CPE2s are later models or something like that).

Well, I guess I'll just have to look for either a CPE2 that comes already with a lift attached or a CPE2+ (and get a lift later). I see the CPE2 lift is still listed (new) at some online stores.

 

[ic-racer]

wouldn't it be possible to use a flexible tube slightly smaller in diameter than the opening of the cog lid, attach a cone to the tube, insert the loose end of the tube into the opening of the tank while it's rotating, then pour in the developer,

Yes, this is how they recommend filling an expert drum on a roller base.

 

[Mick Fagan]

Arthur, this is a long shot here. You may strike luck with a Foto Haus in Waiblingen, which is north of Stuttgart. Pretty much a long day trip there and back from your location, I would guess.

Fotohaus Kienzle is the name, from memory they are in Blumen strasse.

To put things in perspective, they had a basement section where they kept their darkroom stuff, including massive amounts of Jobo machines. They were selling around 300 Jobo processors a year in the late eighties and into the late nineties which is the last time I visited.

I have purchased complete Hasselblad systems, Leica systems and my own Nikons and some of the lenses from that store.

There was just no way I was able to carry a Jobo processor system onto an aeroplane, so I never bought from them.

Anyway, they had massive amounts of bits and pieces, you never know, they may just have some bits and pieces.

The fella with the best knowledge was Helmut Waschin, not sure if he is still there, but his knowledge of Jobo and Nikon product was legendary.

Mick.

 

[Arthur Fleischmann]

Thanks ice-racer for the confirmation!

Thank you, Mick! Your memory is really good, you're right about the adress of the photo store, from your hints I was even able to find their website: http://www.fotohaus-kienzle.de/! I might send them an email. Although I think it's a bit farther than a day trip from my location. I was able to find some stores in Germany which still offer Jobo darkroom equipment new, e.g. http://www.lumiere-shop.de/ and http://www.fotoimpex.de/ still list the CPP2 processor and lift, and some spare parts. I think there's also a shop in the UK.

 

[SWphoto]

I'm in the process of buying a CPE2-plus with Lift. I gather I want the drums with cogs (rather than the ones with magnets). Reading the post above about being able to take off the cog and replace it, can you go the opposite route (insert a cog), or must I buy drums with cogs installed at the factory?

Rick

 

[glbeas]

I understand that the cogs are available and can be put on a magnet tank. The magnet too can be popped off and put on another tank.