Jobo ATL-1000 with Jobo 1500 series tanks?

angusgr · Aug 26, 2009

OK, another newbie question:

I just got my "new" ATL-1000 heating properly, and it's rolling away doing a dummy run when I notice the tanks aren't really immersed in the water. I noticed before that the longer tank doesn't sit right on the rollers

I bought this along with 3 1500-series Jobo tanks. The store also had some larger 2500-series tanks, but the manager told me these were for the other, larger, processor they were selling.

Did I get ripped? I just saw Jobo's website says that, with a cog, 1500s can be used "on all processors equipped with a JOBO Lift (except ATL" (and then it cuts off.)

Is that correct?

MikeSeb · Aug 26, 2009

You need 25xx tanks for the ATL-1000 and -1500. AFAIK, the 15xx tanks cannot be used with those processors.

You probably got ignorant-ed, rather than ripped.

angusgr · Aug 26, 2009

Thanks Michael. Yeah, ripped is probably an exaggeration. I was just frustrated that I finally had this thing working and then realised I have the wrong tanks for it. .

(Backstory: I was living in NYC earlier this year and I bought the processor from a camera store in Long Island, lugged it all the way back to Australia, and spent a few months getting it all together and working. I should learn to be less ambitious slash foolhardy.)

EDIT: And the store I bought it from closed their doors in April. Must have been victims of the downturn. .

angusgr · Aug 26, 2009

To throw an idea out there, I'm wondering how hard it would be to modify the ATL-1000 to work with the smaller tanks. The two requirements I can think of are raising the lift rollers to give proper support to the smaller tanks, and raising the water bath level about 1-1.5cm (at the moment it _just_ touchs the bottom of the tanks.)

MikeSeb · Aug 26, 2009

I am not sure how you'd raise the lift rollers; they appear to be affixed more or less permanently to the bottom of the water-bath tank.

What did you do to adapt the machine to Australia's 240V mains current? New plug or adapter of course...but what about the motor?

angusgr · Aug 26, 2009

MikeSeb said:
I am not sure how you'd raise the lift rollers; they appear to be affixed more or less permanently to the bottom of the water-bath tank.

I was thinking I could either mount a new pair of rollers somewhere else on the lift rails, maybe next to the existing ones. Or remove the existing rollers themselves (pull out the axles) and make some small plastic extensions to the roller brackets, so they sit a little higher up. It'd be fiddly, but it doesn't seem impossible.

If anyone with a 25xx tank is feeling generous, could you measure the diameter of the base for me?

I'm actually more worried about raising the water bath. It seems like the depth is designed into the shape of the unit, so raising it increases the chances of water going somewhere it is not supposed to, if it's possible at all.

MikeSeb said:
What did you do to adapt the machine to Australia's 240V mains current? New plug or adapter of course...but what about the motor?

I bought a 1000W 240V->115V stepdown converter. It's a big box with two US-style power outlets on it.

I had emailed Jobo about converting it. Klaus from fotolaborservice explained that the heater element needs changing, and some components on the main board (transformer & others.) I didn't enquire to price, at the time it seemed too complicated (I hadn't yet dismantled it at that point.)

Fred De Van · Aug 26, 2009

angusgr said:
To throw an idea out there, I'm wondering how hard it would be to modify the ATL-1000 to work with the smaller tanks. The two requirements I can think of are raising the lift rollers to give proper support to the smaller tanks, and raising the water bath level about 1-1.5cm (at the moment it _just_ touchs the bottom of the tanks.)

You must use the 2500 tanks.They come with the ATL and are NOT add on extras. There are only 2 that fit. No ATL 1000 or 1500 was sold without them. Mine have no markings of any kind.

angusgr · Aug 26, 2009

Fred De Van said:
You must use the 2500 tanks.

Out of curiosity, do you know of any other reason for this apart from the water bath depth and the roller height? The cogs certainly appear identical, the 15xx tank clips in and will go through the motions just fine (it just won't be sitting flat on the rollers, or properly immersed in the water bath.)

MikeSeb · Aug 27, 2009

Angusgr, the 25xx tank is about 135mm diameter, +/- 1mm, as precisely as I can measure it.

I haven't inquired of them lately, but I think OmegaSatter still services the Jobo units in the US. I've often wondered what I'd do if my goes balls-up. They are getting harder to find on that auction site.

Fred De Van · Aug 27, 2009

angusgr said:
Out of curiosity, do you know of any other reason for this apart from the water bath depth and the roller height? The cogs certainly appear identical, the 15xx tank clips in and will go through the motions just fine (it just won't be sitting flat on the rollers, or properly immersed in the water bath.)

There would be no reason to inquire since it is a question which has no reason to arise. Any one pondering about the 1500 tanks would already have the 2500 tanks since they are supplied to all. The reels are too small and they limit the capacities you already have. There is noting to gain and much to loose. Add to that, 1500 tanks are dimensionally incomparable and cannot be used. (there are no time/capacity info to use them even if you wanted to).

The manager told you wrong. Two 2500 tanks are a part of the machine and necessary in order to use it at all. ATL 1500 manual, Data sheet and specifications are still on the JoBo website. The 1000/1500 has NOT been deleted from the active catalog and are still a production item.
Just as you need a take up spool in a 120 size camera, you need the dedicated components which come with it. They happen to be unmarked 2500 tanks.

Fred De Van · Aug 27, 2009

(it just won't be sitting flat on the rollers, or properly immersed in the water bath.)

Jobo's I.E. the tanks must be dead level at all times. If moved, the machine must be leveled before each use. The water level is determinant to the processes working properly. Correct levels of processing chems is variable by tank size, and critical. The system and the timing of the processes is dependent on the tanks which are supplied are being used.

angusgr · Aug 27, 2009

Fred De Van said:
There would be no reason to inquire since it is a question which has no reason to arise.

What a strange thing to say. The question clearly has arisen for me. Granted, my circumstances are probably unique. As it says in the thread, I bought the processor from a now-defunct camera store on the other side of the world. The manager got it wrong, and I didn't do enough research to know that, but I can't do much about that now.

I bought the processor cheap because they were clearing all their darkroom equipment. It was built in 1993, and I have no idea who owned it before the store. At any rate, it seems I will never know where the original tanks are.

I can certainly buy new 25xx series tanks, but with reels and shipping that will at least double the cost of my setup. Maybe I'll find something used, but maybe I won't. So I'm interested in alternatives, even unorthodox ones.

angusgr · Aug 27, 2009

Fred, thanks for the comments on levels & volumes. If I modify the rollers I should be able to get a 15xx tank to be level. I'll look into the differences between the ATL times and the recommended times for other rotary processors & tank combinations.

Mike, thanks for measuring your tank for me. .

Fred De Van · Aug 27, 2009

The tanks are fairly reasonable and very available on that auction site and should be cheaper than trying to kludge a 1500 to work sucessfully. What processes are you going to use the ATL for.

It would cost more in film and chems to experiment with 1500, than a auction 2500 tank with reels will costs. I use my machine for E-6 and I am sure the small reel and limited chem levels would present problems. The auction prices are a percentage of the listed price which nobody ever paid anyway. Jobo marketing was based on all the free stuff they gave you when you bought a new machine. The list prices are a hoax.

Read the tech data on how the machine works and you will see why Jobo specifies that what you are attempting to do, will not work. Its a fascinating machine and the JOBO guys got it figured out really well.

angusgr · Aug 27, 2009

Fred De Van said:
The tanks are fairly reasonable and very available on that auction site

Living in Australia, items are not as plentifully available. Many US sellers either don't ship internationally or charge massive amounts to do it. I haven't seen anything suitable going yet, but I'm definitely going to keep a look out.

Fred De Van said:
What processes are you going to use the ATL for.

Starting with C41 in 35mm & 120, although I have some E6 floating around and my local lab just closed up so I might buy an E6 kit as well, if only to develop those.

I do B&W by hand at the moment, not planning to switch over.

Fred De Van said:
Read the tech data on how the machine works and you will see why Jobo specifies that what you are attempting to do, will not work.

Well, I've been trying to. The CPE-2 manual specifies the same times and rotation speed for both 1500 and 2500 tanks. The quantities of chemicals for 1500 tanks in rotary applications are available, I just need to measure them into the ATL bottles.

The only technical obstacles I can find so far are keeping the tank flat on the rollers and immersed 1-1.5cm into the water bath. If there are others, I'm definitely keen to hear them. ..

David_A · Aug 28, 2009

angusgr

take a look at this, what this does is enable you to process things on a table top. "Ahh but i've got a processor" I hear you say well what i'm thinking is this is designed to take both film tanks and print tanks. You do this by turning the rollers around. The white roller is held in place on the black stem type thingy this can be pulled up and turnned around to accept a different size tank. If it can be done on this base why can't it be done in the base of your processor? it's the way i used to do film and print in my old CPE2, rollers in one possition for one type of tank rollers in the other way for the other tank. Or put another way the rollers point in or out depending on the size of your tank.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/25524-REG/Jobo_J1509_Roller_Base_for_Combo.html

David

PS sorry about the ashes

angusgr · Aug 30, 2009

Thanks David.

Unfortunately, I have hit a showstopper for this modification. The ATL is too well designed to allow the water bath to go much deeper. There's an overflow drain, designed to save the day if the float switch fails. It looks like it's designed to stop the bath level from covering both the drain hose grommet and the float switch pivot, each of which looks waterproof but probably not watertight.

So, the amount of re-engineering is probably not worth it. . Back to "that auction site" to wait it out...

Trond · Aug 30, 2009

Check out eBay.de too. Tanks and reels turn up quite often there.

Jobo ATL-1000 with Jobo 1500 series tanks?

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