JOBO 3063 Drum Inserts

reggie · Feb 17, 2006

Hi:

I am getting one of these drums and I was wondering if anyone can give me any info on finding inserts for them. I will process 12x20 film in them. I understand the inserts are no longer made by JOBO, but that it may be possible to fabricate them by hand.

I have never seen one of these inserts. Cany anyone upload a few pics of a 3063 insert? Has anyone ever made any?

Thanks for any assistance.

-R

Donsta · Feb 17, 2006

I've tried various solutions. If you use a staining developer, the only thing that works with any consistency (and still not 100% of the time) is the Jobo made insert. I finally found a 16x20 insert which works fine with 12x20, but you still need to pull the drum off and shake vigorously sideways every 2-3 minutes to avoid any banding...

reggie · Feb 20, 2006

Will a JOBO 2850 Print Drum, 16x20" (Is actually a #2830 drum with a #2870 extension module) process 12x20 ok? Does anyone know if there are inserts in this drum? Would the 3063 be better?

Thanks.

-R

boyooso · Feb 21, 2006

Is the 3063 the 20X24 drum?

If so, I have processed many sheets of 12X20 film without the use of an insert with nice results.

I have not used a staining developer...

Corey

reggie · Feb 21, 2006

Yes, the 3063 is the 20x24 drum. I'm glad to hear of your results without the inserts. Do you use a JOBO processor? if so, does the film shifr around a lot inside the drum while processing? Has this cause any problems? Have you ever tried the 16x20 JOBO drum for 12x20?

Thanks.

-Mike

jp80874 · Jan 9, 2007

Reggie,

I realize that you are not getting the exact answers you want, but here is a little more information near enough to your subject that I hope will be helpful.

I process 7x17 in a Jobo CPP-2 using a 2830 drum with a 2560 extension. I have not been able to locate a film insert for this drum combination. I use Rollo Pyro, a two step staining developer. The developer instructions give the option of a second staining step, but everyone I have read here says don't do that. Kevin Sullivan of Bostick & Sullivan, the supplier of my Rollo Pyro said not to do the second stain run at the View Camera conference last summer. At the time he and Gordon Hutchings were teaching a class on Pyro developer.

I have developed a total of about 100 sheets of T Max 400 and HP4+ since I started shooting 7x17 last summer. I think the results have been interesting relative to this thread. I have had no marks on the film from the ridges that keep the film off the inside of the tank. The antihallation coating has always washed off in the five minute prewash that is suggested in the Rollo Pyro directions. I have only had one sheet of film not stay against the ribs throughout the process. My guess is that I didn't get it properly in place when loading. I have never taken the drum off the Jobo to shake it side to side as I was told I should and development has been even across the sheets.

One person's 100 sheet experience, not a lot, but all I have to offer. Hope it helps.

John Powers

resummerfield · Jan 9, 2007

Does anyone have a photo or drawing of the Jobo insert used in the 3063 drum to develop 3 sheets of 7x17? My idea is to fabricate a similar insert for testing.

jp80874 · Jan 9, 2007

Eric,

If you have some success with that I hope you will share or make them and sell them to the rest of us. It would be nice to do three sheets in the same time and effort it now takes to develop two.

John Powers

resummerfield · Jan 9, 2007

John--

I'm not that familiar with the 2830/extension you mention, so are you saying you develop 2 sheets at a time? I would be satisfied to develop 2 at a time, but one at a time takes forever. But still, I would prefer to do 3 at a time.

jp80874 · Jan 10, 2007

Eric,

Yes, I develop two 7x17 sheets in the 2830 drum with a 2560 extension that I mentioned. When loading film two of the spaces between ribs are left over so there is no overlap. The spaces are roughly an inch each so there would not be enough room to go up a size to 11x14. The 2830 drum with a 2560 extension came with my Jobo CPP-2. It contained multiple 120 reels and a shaft. At the time I was shooting an RZ67 so it was useful there as well..

Two sheets at one time of course is better than one. Three at the same time in a 3063 would be even nicer. I have not seen the inside of a 3063 so I don't know how it compares to 2830 drum with a 2560 extension. What I have heard is that some respected people say you will get print through from the ridges. I have not. I don't know why we have had different experiences, but I am willing to buy a 3063 at $144 at B&H or used on Ebay and try it.

If you do find an insert for the 3063 and are successful in copying it, I would be most grateful to receive your design or happy to pay a reasonable price for a duplicate that I could use. I have fourteen sheets of exposed film sitting in a light tight box in my darkroom waiting for me to allocate seven to ten hours of developing. Five hours and an extra sheet of film would be an improvement.

John Powers

Sal Santamaura · Jan 10, 2007

resummerfield said:
Does anyone have a photo or drawing of the Jobo insert used in the 3063 drum to develop 3 sheets of 7x17? My idea is to fabricate a similar insert for testing.

I never heard of such an insert. The ones formerly available, if memory serves, were designed for single large sheets, e.g. 11x14, 14x17, etc. They were made by Jobo USA in Michigan and are therefore no longer available new.

Hoping to link you to an insert photograph, I just looked at Omega Satter's rehosted Jobo pages, but they've done a thorough job of removing references to these drums/inserts for large sheet film. It doesn't seem likely that someone could create duplicates at home without the vacuum forming equipment Jobo used to manufacture them. They appeared to be clear sheets of some plastic material (polyester?), a bit larger than the intended film, with raised "clips" formed around their perimeters under which the film was inserted.

At this point the best DIY approach may be to place the film on some plastic window screen material and insert that combination into a drum. There have been reports elsewhere of success using this method.

Sal Santamaura · Jan 10, 2007

OK, so I didn't search hard enough. Omega Satter hasn't removed the page after all, and the inserts were for 11x14 and 16x20 film. Here you go:

http://www.jobousadarkroom.com/instructions/instructions_misc_302728.htm

The illustrations might help.

jp80874 · Jan 10, 2007

Sal Santamaura said:
OK, so I didn't search hard enough. Omega Satter hasn't removed the page after all, and the inserts were for 11x14 and 16x20 film. Here you go:

http://www.jobousadarkroom.com/instructions/instructions_misc_302728.htm

The illustrations might help.

Sal,

Before searching the whole site, did you see a link or location where you could order the inserts? Do you think they could be modified for 7x17?

Thanks,

John Powers

resummerfield · Jan 10, 2007

Sal Santamaura said:
....At this point the best DIY approach may be to place the film on some plastic window screen material and insert that combination into a drum. There have been reports elsewhere of success using this method.

This sounds like a very, very good idea. Thanks!

Ted Harris · Jan 10, 2007

Hopefully someone else can add on to this and with detective work solve your problem. Some months before Jobo shut down their operations in the US I had a long chat with one of the two long time technicians about what parts I should stockpile for my 2300. We then strayed to what he was going to do and he mentioned that he had been doing mods on the larger print tanks for years so they could be used for ULF film ... he noted he hoped to keep on doing this independently. Since I shoot nothing larger than 810 I filed away the info and hve now forgotten the details.

Can anyone fillin with more?

Sal Santamaura · Jan 10, 2007

jp80874 said:
Sal,

Before searching the whole site, did you see a link or location where you could order the inserts? Do you think they could be modified for 7x17?

Thanks,

John Powers

I coincidentally came across a printed copy of the above linked Jobo page this afternoon that reminded me they were referring to the combinations of their large print drum and inserts as #3027 and #3028 for 11x14 and 16x20 film respectively. That made the second search easy!

Those inserts definitely cannot be ordered. Jobo in Germany did not make them; the now-defunct Jobo USA did. Unlike old Jobo USA, which had dedicated, technically expert rotary processing staff as well as some manufacturing capability, Omega Satter is a pure importer of what Jobo in Germany sends, along with a number of other lines of photographic equipment. The only reason that page remains available is that Omega Satter apparently didn't scrub the content; they seem to have simply rehosted everything that was on the Jobo USA Web site.

Even if one could get the Jobo inserts (I'm still kicking myself for not ordering some a few years ago), based on the vacuum-formed construction I don't think they would be modifiable for 7x17. Probably best to try the window screen backer approach.

Sal Santamaura · Jan 10, 2007

Ted Harris said:
...I had a long chat with one of the two long time technicians...he noted he hoped to keep on doing this independently...

Ted, I was typing my post while you submitted yours. Do you remember which person it was? Ken Owen? With a name we could possibly track him down and determine whether he was successful bidder for the insert-making equipment when Jobo USA's assets were auctioned off.

Donsta · Jan 11, 2007

Sal Santamaura said:
Ted, I was typing my post while you submitted yours. Do you remember which person it was? Ken Owen? With a name we could possibly track him down and determine whether he was successful bidder for the insert-making equipment when Jobo USA's assets were auctioned off.

Mark at Jobo in Ann Arbor used to make the inserts. I chatted to him about 10 months ago after he had left Jobo about perhaps continuing to make some of the inserts. At the time, he had moved to a small photo processing operation in Taylor, MI (I think it was in Taylor). He told me then that he could no longer make them as the dies and equipment used for making the inserts were still at Jobo in AA. So I contacted the two remaining people at Jobo again. To cut a long story short, the equipment which was used to make them at Jobo in Ann Arbor appears to have disappeared.

Robert Hall · Jan 11, 2007

I had the same issues. I have an insert, it is made out of plastic, clear, stiff. It has plastic rivets to hold the film down.

I have been searching for the materials to make them, but have not been able to find the exact match.

An idea, however, is to use the plastic mesh used for needle point.

cut a sheet of it to fit the drum, use plastic bolts, like a size 8 or 10 to make the pins to hold the film in place. you will need 3 on the long sides and 2 on each end.

I have been looking for these for some time. I had a guy on APUG a long while back sell me what he said was a drum and the inserts. I got the drum, but not inserts and have not heard from him for some time. (I paid about $300 for a $150 drum as it turns out.)

I know of 2 that exist in England but the owner wont part with them.

That is the extent of what I know.

Best of luck.

jp80874 · Jan 11, 2007

Donsta said:
Mark at Jobo in Ann Arbor used to make the inserts. I chatted to him about 10 months ago after he had left Jobo about perhaps continuing to make some of the inserts. At the time, he had moved to a small photo processing operation in Taylor, MI (I think it was in Taylor). He told me then that he could no longer make them as the dies and equipment used for making the inserts were still at Jobo in AA. So I contacted the two remaining people at Jobo again. To cut a long story short, the equipment which was used to make them at Jobo in Ann Arbor appears to have disappeared.

Tell him to put it back.

When I talked to them about other needs, Rick or Rich (cant read my note) the parts man went to Mark Williams to answer any serious questions. He sounded quite knowledgeable. Maybe Williams is the last name we are looking for. Maybe each one of us can put a piece in the puzzle. Maybe someone is just sitting on the machine waiting to see if there is a market for inserts. Who were the APUG or LF people who went to the auction? Possibly they know something.

John Powers

Donsta · Jan 11, 2007

Yes - Mark Williams was the guy responsible for actually making these things. However, he left a few months prior to Jobo USA winding up... When I tracked him down about making inserts, he wa 100% certain that he could not do it without the said equipment which is apprently now "MIA"...

jp80874 said:
Tell him to put it back.

When I talked to them about other needs, Rick or Rich (cant read my note) the parts man went to Mark Williams to answer any serious questions. He sounded quite knowledgeable. Maybe Williams is the last name we are looking for. Maybe each one of us can put a piece in the puzzle. Maybe someone is just sitting on the machine waiting to see if there is a market for inserts. Who were the APUG or LF people who went to the auction? Possibly they know something.

John Powers

Ted Harris · Jan 11, 2007

Sal, Ken was their sales guy and IIRC he left well before the end. OTOH if someone knows how to find him then he would remember the name of the guy I am trying to think of and my guy is probably the one who has the gear sine he was the one making the inserts at Jobo. Working hard to remember ... I know one of them was Rich something and it wasn't him it was the other guy. Anothe way to track 'em might be through Omega Satter. I do recall that both the guy I am thinking of and Rich spent weeks/months in NJ training the Omega Satter people or at least attempting to (I understand they didn't have much success).

Meanwhile we both agree on Rich as one guy. Mark doesn't ring a bell with me so maybe there was yet a third guy.

I'll keep thinking.

jp80874 · Jan 11, 2007

Ted,

I wrote Mark Williams' name in my Jobo manual because he really knew the product and how to explain it. I wanted to be able to remember the name for my next call. Rick was okay, but not that good.

John Powers

JOBO 3063 Drum Inserts

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