JOBO 2509N Sheet film reel size compatbility ?

[Deleted member 88956]

For those who use JOBO 2509 reels for film sheet development:



it is stated as adjustable for 6x9 / 9x12 / 4x5 film size. Flaps are included for 9x12 & 4x5 (not for 6x9 though).

1. does 6x9 mean compatibility with 6.5x9 sheet film? Which is not the same as American side sheet film also known as 2x3". (don't get started on accuracy of these "nominal" sizes), Or is film is loaded vertically so 9x12 AND 6x9 use same reel position?

2. the flaps are said as needed for rotary development, are they needed/useful when hand inversion is used ?

3. actual experience would be helpful, especially if one used them for 6x9 sheet film.

Thanks.

 

[Stanislav Boščík]

1. You can set the height to 9 centimeters or 4 inches. When set to 9 cm then it is possible to insert 9x12 in "landscape" orientation of 6x9 (or better 6.5x9) in "portrait" orientation.
2. I am using flaps, my friend is not. We both are doing inversion development without any problems. IMHO using rotation the film might slip out of reels...
3. Never used it for 6x9 but it is convenient for 9x12 or 4x5 although you need quite a big amount of chemistry for inversion development.
No need to obtain that quite expensive loader. I have loaded ~50 of 4x5 and 9x12 color reversal and B&W films without loader and inside a quite small changing bag during one quite productive afternoon. No problem at all - just practice first with some old film sheets and you will be fine.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

@Stanislav Boščík Great, much appreciated, good to know the 6x9 is actually good fit for 6.5x9 sheet film which I use.

 

[Lachlan Young]

The tank demands a lot of chemistry (1200ml for 9x12, 1500ml for 4x5) when used for inversion. The three sizes it can take are 6.5x9cm (horizontally in its own setting, not vertically in the 9x12cm setting), 9x12cm and 4x5" - the flaps/ vanes are really intended to help with rotary agitation - though the Expert Drum is an overall better solution. Unless you have to use the 2509n because of machine restrictions etc, there are better solutions - trays, Expert Drums, BTZS tubes.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

The tank demands a lot of chemistry (1200ml for 9x12, 1500ml for 4x5) when used for inversion. The three sizes it can take are 6.5x9cm (horizontally in its own setting, not vertically in the 9x12cm setting), 9x12cm and 4x5" - the flaps/ vanes are really intended to help with rotary agitation - though the Expert Drum is an overall better solution. Unless you have to use the 2509n because of machine restrictions etc, there are better solutions - trays, Expert Drums, BTZS tubes.

Thanks, any idea why JOBO is apparently not supplying/making flaps for 6x9 film then? I can see how these are needed for rotary operation, but how are they not for smallest size?

As for the process, rotary operation is still something I will look into, all dependent how far I will take processing volume wise. But I can take 2500 system into rotary operation any time. Trouble is I have no current set up for convenient tray development, so need a daylight solution for now. The amount of solution does not bother me a lot as I am no doing a lot to begin with. That's as of today that is. Expert drums would be probably best, but up front cost to me cannot be justified.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Also, what is general experience with 2502 roll film reels (vs. say Paterson, one I've mostly been using)? Never had real issues with Paterson (or Kaiser/AP for that matter) regarding film loading. How is chemical pouring in/out of Jobo by comparison? Fast?

 

[shutterfinger]

I do manual rotary processing with a 2521 and 2509n reel on the manual roller base. It takes 300ml chemical not the 270 listed for the combo. I reverse direction every minute, finger tip to palm of hand switching hands for continuous rotation then switch to palm to finger tip. I average 50 RPM without effort and get excellent results.
Pour in/out is fast.
I also have 2502 reels but rarely use them. I use a stainless steel tank and 120 reel for a single 120 roll of film.
I've never used Patterson reels or tanks.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17dqaWHD6UIf2zd3mxvbxu_HQ4iHTFX76/view?usp=sharing

 

[Deleted member 88956]

@shutterfinger Great info, thanks. Paterson's in my experience are fine tanks, never really had issues, but lately have switched to Kaiser/AP reels, vastly easier to load 120 especially. But it look sot me that Jobo 2500 will allow me to cover all film formats in a single system. May start the same with manual roller base.

 

[shutterfinger]

I bought the bulk of my Jobo gear in the 1990's. I use it for 4x5 B&W primarily. 300 millimeters is the minimum amount of chemicals to use to get even development, be sure to use the minimum amount of developer for the surface area of the film you are processing even if it means using more developer. An approximate equal number of revolutions is necessary to prevent streaks on B&W. I tested at 15 second, 30 second, and 1 minute intervals for direction reversal and it made no difference but 2 or 3 minutes in one direction only will. I have done C41 and E6 years ago and don't recall having to reverse rotation direction for the short development times of these processes.
A pre wash is necessary with Jobo tanks.
I wash all processing gear in warm soapy water then rinse and air dry at the end of the processing session. I have never had any chemical contamination problems between different developers, processes, or wetting agents that some say they have had.
I use the kitchen counter and sink as I don't have a darkroom and have never had any contamination as a result.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

I bought the bulk of my Jobo gear in the 1990's. I use it for 4x5 B&W primarily. 300 millimeters is the minimum amount of chemicals to use to get even development, be sure to use the minimum amount of developer for the surface area of the film you are processing even if it means using more developer. An approximate equal number of revolutions is necessary to prevent streaks on B&W. I tested at 15 second, 30 second, and 1 minute intervals for direction reversal and it made no difference but 2 or 3 minutes in one direction only will. I have done C41 and E6 years ago and don't recall having to reverse rotation direction for the short development times of these processes.
A pre wash is necessary with Jobo tanks.
I wash all processing gear in warm soapy water then rinse and air dry at the end of the processing session. I have never had any chemical contamination problems between different developers, processes, or wetting agents that some say they have had.
I use the kitchen counter and sink as I don't have a darkroom and have never had any contamination as a result.

Once again great input, thanks. I do same kind of washing of tanks you do. I also warm air dry reels just before they go in the bag for film loading, which always made film loading smooth in Paterson tanks.

 

[toulcaz31]

For those who use JOBO 2509 reels for film sheet development:



it is stated as adjustable for 6x9 / 9x12 / 4x5 film size. Flaps are included for 9x12 & 4x5 (not for 6x9 though).

1. does 6x9 mean compatibility with 6.5x9 sheet film? Which is not the same as American side sheet film also known as 2x3". (don't get started on accuracy of these "nominal" sizes), Or is film is loaded vertically so 9x12 AND 6x9 use same reel position?

2. the flaps are said as needed for rotary development, are they needed/useful when hand inversion is used ?

3. actual experience would be helpful, especially if one used them for 6x9 sheet film.

Thanks.

Did you get some in the end? I did and I am super disappointed about how poor the design is, especially the part about the plates not flushing with where the rails stop. It might be the toughest reels I have ever loaded. Even the Mod54 seemed easier to me.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Did you get some in the end? I did and I am super disappointed about how poor the design is, especially the part about the plates not flushing with where the rails stop. It might be the toughest reels I have ever loaded. Even the Mod54 seemed easier to me.

Yes I have mine, but could only do some dry tests. No idea what you mean and what kind of problem you are having. Sheets go in without issues and end plates do no appear in odd place either. I'm not at it at this time, so can't really go and take some pics, but what I experienced is no different form anything one kind on the net. Never used Mod54, so cannot compare unfortunately.

 

[Lachlan Young]

Sheets go in without issues and end plates do no appear in odd place either.

It does require a certain amount of common sense (no more than loading/ unloading a DDS) to put the sheets in correctly & not diagonally across two slots - and the plates can appear to go in back-to-front from how people can imagine they should. Once those issues are resolved, it's straightforward to load.

The only 2509n I had problems with loading was where someone had stepped on the reel...

 

[shutterfinger]

In a Photoflex Changing Room, https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/41880-REG/Photoflex_AC_CROO1_Film_Changing_Room_25.html , I lay the reel with the center column across the tank with the film slots on top and facing away from me. I feel the slots and count to the furthest from me on both sides, insert the sheet of film leaving about 1/8 inch out above the edge of the reel then repeat for the next two sheets. When all 3 sheets for that side are loaded I feel between the sheets side to side with a finger tip and verify the gap is the same across. Once installation is verified I push the sheet in fully, rotate the reel and repeat for the other side. With both sides loaded I pick up an end plate, locate the center pin slot which faces out, locate the pins and snap the end plate in place then repeat for the other side. The loaded reel is then placed in the tank and the tank lid put on. I place the reel(s) in the tank with the black side down.

If I have fewer than 6 sheets I put equal number of sheets per side if possible. A 3 reel tank and reels in the changing room is difficult but can be done with the exception the reel lays on its side in the bag not on the tank opening.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

@shutterfinger handy guide, thanks