JandC Classic Ortho for enlarged negs?

waynecrider · Jan 23, 2006

Is anyone using this and getting continous tones out of it for enlarged negs?

tpersin · Jan 23, 2006

i haven't tried the J&C variety, but have been using Arista APHS Premium Halftone Supreme Ortho Litho Film from Freestyle with wonderful results....

Chazzy · Jan 23, 2006

tpersin said:
i haven't tried the J&C variety, but have been using Arista APHS Premium Halftone Supreme Ortho Litho Film from Freestyle with wonderful results....

Could you say a little more about the "wonderful results"? I know that many people are using Litho film with diluted developers in this manner, but I haven't been able to look at the results. Are you finding that you get a decent scale of grays and smooth tones? What developer are you using and at what dilution? Are there any special procedures you are using?

As for the J&C product, I don't believe that it is available in any sizes larger than 8x10, except by special order.

Shinnya · Jan 23, 2006

Hi,

Have you tried this method?

www.unblinkingeye.com/Articles/EnlargeNeg/enlargeneg.html

I am about to make 16x20 enlarged negatives from my 8x10 negatives in this way. We will see how it goes...

Also, Dektol is not a good developer to use for this purpose though a lot people (or teachers) seem to use it. There is a great article in Post Factory issue #2 on making enlarged negatives using Arista films.

Warmly,
Tsuyoshi

Chazzy said:
Could you say a little more about the "wonderful results"? I know that many people are using Litho film with diluted developers in this manner, but I haven't been able to look at the results. Are you finding that you get a decent scale of grays and smooth tones? What developer are you using and at what dilution? Are there any special procedures you are using?

As for the J&C product, I don't believe that it is available in any sizes larger than 8x10, except by special order.

Aggie · Jan 23, 2006

I've used every brand of ortho film available. J&C is just fine and you get great results. The last batch I got of Arista 8x10 ortho film had some weird things go on with it. It had these funny bullseye marks all over the film. When this was happening, I was even in contact with Jorge, who can vouch for the problems at that time that I had. I do not know if it was just that batch or what. It is rebranded Ilford film, which is very good. I tend to think I just got a bad package.

If you watch on ebay you can sometimes get the Kodak ortho/graphic film. Since you need a flat interpositive for enlarged negs. the fogging of really out dated film is wonderful.

Bergger ortho film in my opinion is the best. It is just very expensive.

Before I get blasted for my opinions, I have done at last accounting over 800 interpositives and almost as many enlarged negs. I spent a lot of time refining the process to get very good results.

Aggie · Jan 23, 2006

Shinnya said:
negatives from my 8x10 negatives in this way. We will see how it goes...

Also, Dektol is not a good developer to use for this purpose though a lot people (or teachers) seem to use it. There is a great article in Post Factory issue #2 on making enlarged negatives using Arista films.

I teach making enlarged negatives. Dektol is just fine for this purpose. You have to know the dilution for the response you want. Many do not teach that you have to dilute it down considerably for use with ortho film.

donbga · Jan 23, 2006

Aggie said:
I've used every brand of ortho film available. J&C is just fine and you get great results. The last batch I got of Arista 8x10 ortho film had some weird things go on with it. It had these funny bullseye marks all over the film. When this was happening, I was even in contact with Jorge, who can vouch for the problems at that time that I had. I do not know if it was just that batch or what. It is rebranded Ilford film, which is very good. I tend to think I just got a bad package.

If you watch on ebay you can sometimes get the Kodak ortho/graphic film. Since you need a flat interpositive for enlarged negs. the fogging of really out dated film is wonderful.

Bergger ortho film in my opinion is the best. It is just very expensive.

Before I get blasted for my opinions, I have done at last accounting over 800 interpositives and almost as many enlarged negs. I spent a lot of time refining the process to get very good results.

The best results I had with APHS was developing with W2D2.

First I made a interpositive on FP4 developed in HC110 and then enlarged onto APHS. Stuart Melvin of Santa Fe told me that there were potetially some problems with APHS depending on the source of manufacture of the film, specifically APHS made in the US had defects while the Japanese source film was okay.

I'm not sure if this is still true now but it may be soemthing to consider if you order from Arista. That is to ask for Japanese manufactured APHS.

Using Dektol with Ortho film is an old trick which can work quite well once you dial in the dilution and development times which isn't too hard.

Don Bryant

Aggie · Jan 23, 2006

donbga said:
The best results I had with APHS was developing with W2D2.

First I made a interpositive on FP4 developed in HC110 and then enlarged onto APHS. Stuart Melvin of Santa Fe told me that there were potetially some problems with APHS depending on the source of manufacture of the film, specifically APHS made in the US had defects while the Japanese source film was okay.

I'm not sure if this is still true now but it may be soemthing to consider if you order from Arista. That is to ask for Japanese manufactured APHS.

Using Dektol with Ortho film is an old trick which can work quite well once you dial in the dilution and development times which isn't too hard.

Don Bryant

Best results with APHS was when I used a tray that had been a developing tray at a college for probably 20 years. They left water in the tray overnight to keep it moist. I used a tray that had the water left in it for probably 2 weeks. It absorbed enough old dektol off the sides to be absolutely perfect. What is nice is the ability to use the safe lights to watch what is happening with the development. It's Development by inspection in the best sense of the words.

waynecrider · Jan 23, 2006

Aggie said:
I teach making enlarged negatives. Dektol is just fine for this purpose. You have to know the dilution for the response you want. Many do not teach that you have to dilute it down considerably for use with ortho film.

So can you give us a clue about the dilution? Inquiring minds want to know!

Btw, do you use Dektol for both the interpositive and enlarged neg? Surely other developers can be used. Why would Dektol be better? thanks...

Chazzy · Jan 23, 2006

Shinnya said:
There is a great article in Post Factory issue #2 on making enlarged negatives using Arista films.

Is Post Factory a magazine? I have never seen it, but I would at least like to have that issue.

donbga · Jan 24, 2006

Chazzy said:
Is Post Factory a magazine? I have never seen it, but I would at least like to have that issue.

The magazine was published independently by Judy Segal and had 8 or 9 issues (I forget how many). Originally she sent out the first issue free of charge. I think the entire set can now be purchased from photo eye. It's a great read, eclectic and informative.

Don Bryant

donbga · Jan 24, 2006

Shinnya said:
Hi,

There is a great article in Post Factory issue #2 on making enlarged negatives using Arista films.

I might also recommend Dave Soemarko's LC-1 developer for high contrast lith type films which I beleive was also published in Post Factory Journal.

Don't have PFJ? Then go here for his formula:

http://members.aol.com/fotodave/Articles/LC-1.html

Don Bryant

Shinnya · Jan 24, 2006

That is exactly what I am referring to.

He did a test and Dektol was giving very unpredictable result. I am not saying it cannot be done. I am sure many people have done that way, and it works in a sense that any developer develops latent images... But some are more stuitalbe to the particular use than others.

The situation is rather contradictory: while you need inter-positive with less density, which means less development time, less agitation, and more diluted developer. But you will also need to get even tones without mottling or excessive edge effects which require longer development time, more agitation, and stronger developer. Dektol is a developer with a high alkalinity due to amount of carbonate which makes difficult for these requirements to meet at the same time.

D-76 works a little better, and his LC-1 works really nice. It is a two-part developer and control the contrast by changing the ratio of two parts.

Warmly,
Tsuyoshi

donbga said:
I might also recommend Dave Soemarko's LC-1 developer for high contrast lith type films which I beleive was also published in Post Factory Journal.

Don't have PFJ? Then go here for his formula:

http://members.aol.com/fotodave/Articles/LC-1.html

Don Bryant

CRhymer · Jan 24, 2006

donbga said:
The magazine was published independently by Judy Segal and had 8 or 9 issues (I forget how many). Originally she sent out the first issue free of charge. I think the entire set can now be purchased from photo eye. It's a great read, eclectic and informative.

Don Bryant

You could try alternativephotography.com

http://www.alternativephotography.com/books/js_post_factory.html

or contact Judy Seigel at jseigel@panix.com There are nine issues in the full set. It is a unique experience, and well worth the $40.00 plus very reasonable shipping (as of August, 2005)

kwmullet · Jan 24, 2006

Aggie said:
I teach making enlarged negatives.
[...]

cool. I asked about covering this in the upcoming Les McLean workshop, but I got the impression it wasn't Lee or Les' cup of tea.

Do you teach a workshop Aggie? The fam and I are overdue for a Texas to California and back Route 66 road trip. Do your new digs put you anywhere near that route?

-KwM-

Aggie · Jan 24, 2006

kwmullet said:
cool. I asked about covering this in the upcoming Les McLean workshop, but I got the impression it wasn't Lee or Les' cup of tea.

Do you teach a workshop Aggie? The fam and I are overdue for a Texas to California and back Route 66 road trip. Do your new digs put you anywhere near that route?

-KwM-

I will be teaching enlarged negatives this summer at Photographers Formulary in Montana. It is June 25th through the 30th.

How i got into this type of negative was out of neccessity. My son in law said to take only a 35mm camera to Venezuela, and have at most 2 lenses so I would be less of a target for theives. As it was I did get into one small altercation and punch out one would be theif. When I got home, I want to use these negatives to make Van Dyke and cyanotype prints. That was 6 years ago. The teacher taught the bare basics, and I wanted more. I read everything, experimented, worked with others that had perfected the medium, and then innovated some tricks of my own. I found that controling contrast was easy with a few tricks. I'll post a couple of photos later once I can kick hubby off the main computer that has my images stored.

If you come up 89 at Flagstaff AZ to Kanab Utah, that route will take you through Zion National park. This via Hwy 9 going West. You can then drop back down to Vegas on I-15 which will also take you direct into LA. This is actually a more scenic route than the Northern AZ route along I-40.

JandC Classic Ortho for enlarged negs?

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