J&C 70mm IR film

htmlguru4242 · Aug 2, 2006

I'm sure you've all seen the 70mm IR film that's been up on J&C for awhile now. Does anyone know anyting about it? Becuase, at the current price, it's not a bad deal. If it's good stuff, would a few people be willing to go in on and order and cut it donw to 120?

Terence · Aug 2, 2006

I bought some, but have yet to try it out. I already had a 70mm back and loader, so I won't need it cut down.

I'm waiting for some feedback from J&C, but I'm guessing that it's "similar to" the other 820nm IR film they carry.

Lotus M50 · Aug 2, 2006

Terence said:
I bought some, but have yet to try it out. I already had a 70mm back and loader, so I won't need it cut down.

I'm waiting for some feedback from J&C, but I'm guessing that it's "similar to" the other 820nm IR film they carry.

It does sound interesting and I suspect (but don't know) that it is probably made by Maco (since they make both their own brand 820 IR film and Rollei's 820 IR film).

I've got a stash of Konica IR 750, but it won't last forever, so it will be interesting to see how this stuff compares. I'm surprised that J and C doesn't cut it down themselves for their customers -- but their marketing of the Rollei IR film in 120 size might prevent them from doing so. I'm willing to go in and give it a try if you can get it cut down.

nworth · Aug 2, 2006

Just like the other posters, I don't have any real information to offer on this film. But since it is 70mm, I suspect it may be a European photo reconnaisence (aerial) film.

Petzi · Aug 3, 2006

I am almost certain it is Agfa Aviphot 400 aerial film, the same as Rollei IR.

This film not sensitized up to 820nm, though Maco at some point falsely advertized it as such, which caused the confusion we see from time to time. There has never been a Rollei 820 IR. Only Maco IR 820c (made by Efke) and Rollei IR (made by Agfa, sensitive up to about 750nm.)

The Agfa is a very good film. Data sheet is here: http://www.agfa.com/docs/sp/aerial/aviphot_pan400S_2006_01_09_en.pdf

Why they are not selling it under the Agfa name I don't know.

Petzi · Aug 3, 2006

Lotus M50 said:
It does sound interesting and I suspect (but don't know) that it is probably made by Maco (since they make both their own brand 820 IR film and Rollei's 820 IR film).

Maco don't make anything. They are a sales organization. Sometimes they commission someone to make something for them.

Lotus M50 said:
I'm surprised that J and C doesn't cut it down themselves for their customers -- but their marketing of the Rollei IR film in 120 size might prevent them from doing so. I'm willing to go in and give it a try if you can get it cut down.

There is no point for J&C in having someone cut the film to 120, because this is exactly what Maco do: Have someone cut the Agfa film to 120 and market it under the Rollei brand. The 70mm however is cut and perforated by Agfa for their aerial customers.

Lotus M50 · Aug 3, 2006

Petzi said:
Maco don't make anything. They are a sales organization. Sometimes they commission someone to make something for them.

That is interesting and the first I've heard that. There are several specific references that say that the Rollei film is "produced by Maco". Maybe all Maco (a.k.a. HANS O. MAHN & CO.) is doing is cutting the film down (but wouldn't that require more than just a sales organization?). Is there any difference between the Rollei Infrared film and the MACO IR 820 c film that is also "produced" by Maco?

Are all the recent Rollei films just a re-branding of existing films -- re-packaged by Maco for Rollei? Are they the same as the corresponding Maco films? When I've seen that suggested in the past, there have been some vehement denials (despite all the striking similarities).

Petzi · Aug 3, 2006

Lotus M50 said:
That is interesting and the first I've heard that. There are several specific references that say that the Rollei film is "produced by Maco". Maybe all Maco (a.k.a. HANS O. MAHN & CO.) is doing is cutting the film down (but wouldn't that require more than just a sales organization?). Is there any difference between the Rollei Infrared film and the MACO IR 820 c film that is also "produced" by Maco?

Are all the recent Rollei films just a re-branding of existing films -- re-packaged by Maco for Rollei? Are they the same as the corresponding Maco films? When I've seen that suggested in the past, there have been some vehement denials (despite all the striking similarities).

1. I don't know if Maco do any cutting and spooling of films and papers on their own premises. To me it seems more likely they commission an external entity for these jobs. I have a guess who might be one of these service providers but I don't want to say because I do not have enough confirmation. Maco certainly do not produce any emulsion nor do they operate coating machines for film or paper, i.e. they don't produce the film or paper in the strict sense. Maco do the finishing at most for some of their products.

2. The Rollei films are made by various manufacturers; none of them is made by Maco (in the strict sense.) I think of Maco as some sort of project manager. Some Rollei films (Retro) are Agfa APX (coated by Agfa, but not cut and spooled by Agfa.) The Rollei IR is aerial film made by Agfa. I think some others (probably the 25 speed and the Ortho) are made in Germany by the former Orwo.

3. The other Maco products (other than the Rollei products) are also made by various manufacturers, but none by Maco. For a while they sold a lot of Efke stuff, the Maco IR 820c was part of that deal. They do not sell Efke products any longer, maybe they have some remaining stock.
I think at some point some of their b/w paper was made by Fuji, but I don't know which one. Maco also sell Seagull, but not under the Maco brand, but rather under the Seagull brand.

4. Like I said before, the Maco IR 820c and the Rollei IR are wildly different in every way. The Maco IR 820c was made by Efke, and the Rollei IR was made by Agfa. There are only very small amounts of Maco IR 820c left somewhere in the sales chain and in my freezer. To the best of my knowledge, Maco do no longer buy products from Efke.

htmlguru4242 · Aug 3, 2006

Petzi, how does the 70mm IR film compare to Konica IR720? The Konica stuff was, by far, my favorite IR film.

Petzi · Aug 3, 2006

The Agfa Aviphot film is panchromatic with extended sensitivity into IR. You could actually use the Aviphot for general photography.

The Konica was, if I remember correctly, not sensitive to much of the visible spectrum (green?).

This wouldn't make much of a difference IMHO if you were shooting IR with a deep red or black filter.

htmlguru4242 · Aug 3, 2006

Excellent to know.

The 70mm doesn't seem to be too expensive, so would it be possible to obtain it in 35mm somewhat cheaply, and, if so, from where?

Petzi · Aug 3, 2006

If you want 35mm cartridges, you would have to buy the Rollei.

I need to inquire if Agfa stock the 35mm, I assume they won't finish 35mm for you unless you order it by the pallet. If they stock it, then it is only going to be available on long rolls.

Can you not use the 70mm? MF is better than 35mm.

htmlguru4242 · Aug 3, 2006

I can certainly use MF. I've gota few MF cameras that'll work. I was just asking 35mm as a side note ....

I'll figure out how to slit this down and maybe make 120 or 220 rolls from it.

nworth · Aug 3, 2006

If this stuff truly is the Agfa product, it has what we usually call "enhanced red" rather than true IR sensitivity. That said, the Agfa spec sheet describes a truly outstanding film (at least on paper).

Lotus M50 · Aug 3, 2006

nworth said:
If this stuff truly is the Agfa product, it has what we usually call "enhanced red" rather than true IR sensitivity. That said, the Agfa spec sheet describes a truly outstanding film (at least on paper).

Does that make it similar to the now discontinued Ilford SFX 200?

htmlguru4242 · Aug 4, 2006

The sensitivity curve looks a bit similar to Konica's IR film, though a little less sensitive. It looks like it'd make a GREAT general photograpy film, due to its extended red.

And when did they discontinue SFX200?

Lotus M50 · Aug 4, 2006

htmlguru4242 said:
And when did they discontinue SFX200?

I thought it maybe 2 years ago. Did they bring it back? I don't beleive Ilford lists it as currently in production or available. See their product availabilty list for April 2006

J&C 70mm IR film

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