I've got a stain with HP5+ developed in ID-11

I developed yesterday different films, FP4+ and HP5+, in the same badge of ID-11 @1+1. The FP4+ came out as usual but the HP5+ has a hughe stain?
On the picture the upper film is FP4+ and the other the HP5+.
For both I used the same stop aswel the fixer. To be precise a Buffered Stop Bath and a Alkaline Fixer like TF3.
I'am very surprised with this result.
But how is this possible?
And why only HP5+?
Is there also a possibilty to remove this stain.
Any help is welcome.
Thanks

Was the stain visible after the fixing? If not, the stain could be due to the water wash. You can attempt to clean off this stain with PEC-12. To quote...

"Photographic Emulsion Cleaner for color & black and white prints, slides and negatives. PEC-12 removes ink, finger oils, adhesives, mildew and other non-water based stains."

I've used it and it is great stuff.

There's no stain on the bottom image just base fog. It looks quite normal. Don't expect two different film bases to look the same even from the same manufacturer.

Ian

Ian Grant said:

There's no stain on the bottom image just base fog. It looks quite normal. Don't expect two different film bases to look the same even from the same manufacturer.

Ian

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IMHO, Ian has nailed it.

I'm with Tom and Ian, I only see base fog, not a stain.

I'm with Tom, Ian and Jim...

Print it then we will all be with Ian, Tom, Jim, n Shawn.

Yesterday a printed up 28 contact sheets I really noticed that different films took different times to get good contact sheets.


MM

I'm with Ian, Tom, Jim, and Shawn (anyone else want to join in???)

Leon said:

I'm with Ian, Tom, Jim, and Shawn (anyone else want to join in???)

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I'll join in. No use going against the majority.

Upon further inspection, the stain appears to be a general stain and not something acquired through an improper wash.

IIRC HP5+ has higher base density than FP4+. This is not development fog, but in the base itself for the purpose of preventing light piping through the leader that sticks out of the cartridge. Faster films need denser base. There are other ways of preventing piping. I believe in some films the antihalation coating serves the same purpose and is removed in processing. To test this, take a piece of leader and remove the emulsion from it with full strength Clorox-type bleach. Compare HP5+ and FP4+ this way.

Well, that wasn't the dumbest thing I ever did, but pretty close. I didn't even look to see that it was sheet film. I did the ASS-U-ME thing. It may still be true, but not for the reason I gave. No leaders on sheet film.

Thank you all.
It's so curious that never before this has happen. I looked up some older HP5+ sheets and they all are colourless like the FP4+ in the sample. I will make today fresh baths of developer, stop and fixer and try another sheet.
I let you know.

Harry, I developed 5 sheets of HP5+ yesterday, in D76 1+1 and it was the first time in about 8 months that I had done HP5+ as opposed to FP4+.

The first thing I noticed was the density and the slight brown looking stain, I said to myself, yep that's HP5.

I checked your film notches to confirm and ensure you had identified the film correctly and noticed that you have interesting holder marks, what kind of holders are those?

Mick.

hka said:

Thank you all.
It's so curious that never before this has happen. I looked up some older HP5+ sheets and they all are colourless like the FP4+ in the sample. I will make today fresh baths of developer, stop and fixer and try another sheet.
I let you know.

Click to expand...

Hi Harry,

Curious indeed, the stain (judging by the scan at least) looks like a pyro/catechol stain. I have also seen such a stain with an exhausted developer, but that does not make sense since the FP4 neg came out fine.

HP5 always has a higher B+F than FP4.

Best,

Cor

PS you did make a good print of it, judging on the dutch forum?

Just out of curiosity I loaded the attachments into Paint Shop Pro as is. There seems to be a little color in each, which neutralizes when I convert to gray scale, so I figure it's not in the monitor. Undoing the gray scale and converting to positive show a warm brown image from the FP4+ and a more magenta image from th HP5+, after I adjust brightness and contrast. I don't know exactly what all this shows, but it seems that there is some amount of image stain in each one, not just overall stain.

An MQ degeloper like ID-11 or D-76 could make a stained image somewhat more towards red than catechol if there was very little sulfite in it, but I mean VERY little. Pyrocat M would be an example if hydroquinone were substituted for the catechol. It may have less than 1 gram of Q per liter of working solution and produce quite a strong stain image. The pH is considerably higher than ID-11, though. The fixer, I think, has enough sulfite to prevent carried over Q from developing a stain. Maybe something between developer and fixer changed the carried over sulfite to sulfate before it killed the MQ.

I developed a new sheet of HP5 in the same badge of developer and made fresh stop and fixer.
The results are now the same as for FP4 without any "stain".
After examination the old stop and fix I discovered some yellowish colouring in this two.
I think that I have used them some time ago in combination with a Pyrocatechin developer. Something I forgot.
That must be the reason why the colour of the HP5 has changed.
Problem solved. Thanks to anybody.