It would sure be nice if someone would come out with a Panalure paper replacement.

rpavich · Feb 29, 2016

Just for fun I took a color negative and printed it using B&W chems and paper. The results were fair if you have no other choice and you NEED to print but really, they weren't acceptable to me.

I have read of Kodak's Panalure paper; the paper that allows color negs to be printed B&W with some decent results.

I was wishing that someone would reissue this paper or come up with a replacement paper that will do the same thing.

I have lots of color negatives that I shot before I started B&W printing that I don't want to get rid of but can't really print acceptably in the darkroom.

AgX · Feb 29, 2016

There is a alternative by Ilford Photo.

rpavich · Feb 29, 2016

AgX said:
There is a alternative by Ilford Photo.

Any idea what it is?

GregW · Feb 29, 2016

http://www.ilfordphoto.com/aboutus/page.asp?n=127

rpavich · Feb 29, 2016

GregW said:
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/aboutus/page.asp?n=127

That's not a specific product geared towards printing color negs to B&W...that's just talking about what kind of results you'll get when printing to their normal multigrade IV paper.

AgX · Feb 29, 2016

I meant these:
http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/producttype.asp?n=4&t=Photographic+Papers+Digital

(only available as rolls)

pentaxuser · Feb 29, 2016

Simon R Galley said:
These very specialist coatings ( in RC and FB ) are designed for laser exposure ( very, very short exposures) and it is not made in sheet sizes as it is UNSUITABLE for conventional exposure and usage.

I found this quote from Mr Galley which would seem to exclude the digital paper from being used with a conventional optical enlarger and yet somewhere in the back of my mind is a feeling that someone has tried this and succeeded with the kind of "normal " optical enlarger exposures but I may be wrong.

If it can be done then provided you are willing to invest in a roll of paper and can do it in total darkness then the Ilford paper means that there is a Panalure equivalent or as close as we are ever likely to get to Panalure

Just as a matter of interest given that the DUKA safelight is OK for panchromatic colour paper would it be OK for the Ilford digital paper?

pentaxuser

AgX · Feb 29, 2016

Simon stated that those papers were unfit for use with enlargers, but even did not state why when I hinted at a statement of a fellow member of using such Ilford paper successfully without problem.

pentaxuser · Feb 29, 2016

AgX said:
Simon stated that those papers were unfit for use with enlargers, but even did not state why when I hinted at a statement of a fellow member of using such Ilford paper successfully without problem.

Yes that is my recollection as well. Did the fellow member state what his exposure was and whether he used a DUKA safelght

I doubt if this is something I will ever invest in but given that the OP may be prepared to do so then the more information we can give on exposure and safelight usage the better

Urgent message to all APUG users of Ilford digital paper for B&W prints from colour negatives: Tell us what you did

Thanks

pentaxuser

juan · Feb 29, 2016

I used panalure occasionally. I didn't see much difference from Kodabromide insofar as color reproduction was concerned.
Juan

Roger Cole · Mar 1, 2016

juan said:
I used panalure occasionally. I didn't see much difference from Kodabromide insofar as color reproduction was concerned.
Juan

I saw a HUGE difference between Panalure, which produced excellent results, and the regular B&W papers I tried, though admittedly I did not have or try Kodabromide.

No conventional paper was really good. Graded papers are primarily sensitive to blue with little green sensitivity and very little to yellow and red. VC papers are more sensitive to green as well as blue, but then the contrast varies with color.

Another thing I recall is that all of my attempts on regular papers looked very "grainy" though that's not the right term, but as if they were grainy, as the areas of the negative that were colors the paper was almost completely insensitive to did not print at all leaving, essentially, voids.

Panalure worked great. I bought up a couple of packs of 8x10 I found and am jealously keeping it in my freezer to be pulled out occasionally when I see a color negative that would look good printed B&W.

pentaxuser said:
Just as a matter of interest given that the DUKA safelight is OK for panchromatic colour paper would it be OK for the Ilford digital paper?

pentaxuser

Can't say for sure about the Ilford paper but I used my Duka with Panalure, set the same as I set it for RA4 paper, with no issues at all.

Roger Cole · Mar 1, 2016

I would like to see a modern Panalure/panchromatic paper for regular enlarger exposure as well, but I don't think this is likely from the major makers.

OTOH, when Galaxy can kickstart a new paper, maybe paper making is easy enough this could be done by a similar project. I imagine it would be a good deal easier than, say, New 55. But then again, I admit I don't have a clue what is necessary to make a paper panchromatic either so maybe not.

While I'm wishing I'd want it to be fiber based and definitely NOT developer incorporated. Wishing for one paper is pie in the sky enough. Wishing for multiple contrast grades is probably less realistic than wishing to win the lottery. With a non-developer incorporated graded paper contrast can be controlled somewhat using developers like Selectol-Soft, a regular developer, and a concentrated high contrast one and varying time in each. The usual VC approach is clearly not possible since we want the paper to respond to all colors without changing contrast.

Jim Taylor · Mar 1, 2016

AgX said:
Simon stated that those papers were unfit for use with enlargers, but even did not state why when I hinted at a statement of a fellow member of using such Ilford paper successfully without problem.

That was an interesting comment by Simon. The product sheet for this paper says that it CAN be exposed under an enlarger (page: 1 - bottom right, under "exposing light sources")

pdeeh · Mar 1, 2016

Roger Cole said:
OTOH, when Galaxy can kickstart a new paper, maybe paper making is easy enough this could be done by a similar project.

they didn't, they used a manufacturer's existing stock line (Slavich).

making paper seems to be just as difficult as making film - look at how long it's taking Mirko to get the polywarmtone back to market

Xmas · Mar 1, 2016

pdeeh said:
they didn't, they used a manufacturer's existing stock line (Slavich).

making paper seems to be just as difficult as making film - look at how long it's taking Mirko to get the polywarmtone back to market

Hi

We could ask Mirko but the market volume would be very limited.
It is better to keep Mirko employed rather than in dole queue.
Another warm tone would be nice.
If Kodak and Fuji stop who will be making C41 film? Ferranni are the only horse in the race.

Noel

pentaxuser · Mar 1, 2016

Looks like member rpavich has had his wish come true. There is a paper that meets his wish or comes fairly close. He might want to tell us what his reaction is to all we have given him in terms of information. Not cheap but doable would be my conclusion.

pentaxuser

rpavich · Mar 1, 2016

pentaxuser said:
Looks like member rpavich has had his wish come true. There is a paper that meets his wish or comes fairly close. He might want to tell us what his reaction is to all we have given him in terms of information. Not cheap but doable would be my conclusion.

pentaxuser

Hmm...looks like this is the first alert I've gotten on this thread but a LOT of discussion. This has been happening to me a lot on APUG...I don't know why.

The roll paper looks like a great option, too bad it's way too expensive for me. If some entrepreneur would cut that down into sheets and box them for sale at a reasonable price, I'd be all over that.

As it is...I won't be wet printing color negs anytime soon.

AgX · Mar 1, 2016

Well, I just looked into my own archive... That paper was and still is sold as sheets by Ultrafine.

OptiKen · Mar 1, 2016

AgX said:
Well, I just looked into my own archive... That paper was and still is sold as sheets by Ultrafine.

Where - what - how?
I could not find it on their site. What name does the paper go by?

AgX · Mar 1, 2016

Well, it is listed under "Ilford Photo Papers"...

http://www.ultrafineonline.com/ilmuivpa.html

rpavich · Mar 1, 2016

AgX said:
Well, it is listed under "Ilford Photo Papers"...

http://www.ultrafineonline.com/ilmuivpa.html

That certainly seems like what I'm asking about. Thanks for the link, i'll check it out.

rpavich · Mar 1, 2016

Well..more news. In searching this product I came across a discussion about using it like Panalure paper. The Ilford rep said:

Dear All,

It is a good product for sure, but designed very specifically for intense laser exposure, we have looked at its properties for other applications ( eg regular exposure or Panalure type performance ) and we would not suggest that it is technically suitable for these applications.

Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited.

MattKing · Mar 1, 2016

I'm going to guess on this.

The Ilford digital paper is designed for very quick, very intense exposures.

My "guess" is that it will suffer from reciprocity "complications" if you use it with regular, enlarger exposure, and that those complications will affect the different colours differently.

So for example, a 4x5 print may show different tonality than an 11x14, because the reciprocity failure will affect (for example) the blue parts of the subject differently than the red parts of the subject.

Guess over.

Bob Carnie · Mar 1, 2016

I use this paper as intended - it is a extended red sensitivity paper which needs to be handled (process ) in complete darkness.. I would guess (pretty good idea) that it is based
on Galerie emulsion at about a fixed grade 4.

I calibrate a 21 step wedge via lambda with this paper which once calibrated allows any BW file to accurately render tones.

I have never tried this paper under the enlarger..

AgX · Mar 1, 2016

There is no reason for the reciprocity to differ by colour.

It would sure be nice if someone would come out with a Panalure paper replacement.

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