It would be good to have Delta 400 in sheet

GeorgesGiralt · Apr 19, 2007

Hi !
I wonder why there is only Kodak T-grain film in 400 ISO speed available in 4x5 size.
Large format film can accommodate larger grain so 400 ISO speed is very good in that size. We are not, as smaller format users are, forced to use the slow fine grained films.
Add to this the fact that we use "slow" lenses, often closed as much as we can to gain that extra mm of deep of field.
So I wonder why one can use HP5 Plus but not Delta 400 ?
Mr Galley, a good reason ?

matt miller · Apr 19, 2007

I would definitely purchase some Delta 400 in 5x7 if it were available.

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 19, 2007

I've stated my interest in such a film many times. I don't particularly care for the tonality of HP5+ or TMY, but I'd definitely shoot Delta 400 if it were available in sheet sizes. Currently I use Tri-X and my remaining stock of Forte/J&C/Arista.EDU I 400 in that speed.

BradS · Apr 19, 2007

Was delta 400 ever available in sheets? If not, I wonder why not. Perhaps, there is some technical reason similar to that for SFX200?

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 19, 2007

I think it was available in 4x5" at one time and discontinued due to low sales, but at that time, the first tier companies were offering more B&W sheet film options (like Super-XX and Ektapan, and maybe APX 400--I don't recall whether it was available in sheet sizes), so maybe it's time to test the market again. Forte and Agfa are out of the way. The remaining ISO 400 sheet films are Fomapan 400, Tri-X, Neopan-400, T-Max 400, and HP5+.

Simon R Galley · Apr 19, 2007

Dead David,

This is definitely a cost to produce / stock holding issue :

We withdrew it a long time ago XP2 Sheet film as well, because any stock we have to destroy*( stock wise ) by going out of date is subject to a detailed product review. *Yes... we do recover the silver.

As I guess you all know now, on very short runs of any product ( and especially film ) we have high wastage : Run up and run down on the coating machine etc etc.

Regardless, the absolute minimum run would generate about 15,500 boxes of 25 sheets ( 5" x 4" ) based on known sales at withdrawl, and add in the known decline in the market, that would mean the product would surely go out of date before all inventory was sold.

So I see very little chance of a return, but as always I will ensure that it is mentioned in the range team meeting of the marketing functiuon at HARMAN

Regards

Simon. ILFORD photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Amund · Apr 19, 2007

David A. Goldfarb said:
I think it was available in 4x5" at one time and discontinued due to low sales, but at that time, the first tier companies were offering more B&W sheet film options (like Super-XX and Ektapan, and maybe APX 400--I don't recall whether it was available in sheet sizes), so maybe it's time to test the market again. Forte and Agfa are out of the way. The remaining ISO 400 sheet films are Fomapan 400, Tri-X, Neopan-400, T-Max 400, and HP5+.

Ooohh, I wish Neopan 400 was offered in 4x5, but it isn`t...

bdial · Apr 19, 2007

Let's see, 19,986 members, not including Simon. Only 5,014 of us would need to buy two boxes...

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 19, 2007

Thanks for the reply, Simon. Could it be a special offering like the ULF offerings, cut in a range of sizes to make more use of the master roll?

GeorgesGiralt · Apr 19, 2007

Hi Simon !
If you advertise a single run and see as you go from here ?
IMHO, the competitors are quite far from Delta 400.
The new Tmax is grainier, the FomaPan 400 is wayyy different, so you have something to say.
Will it be profitable ? I don't know and can't say, but...
Cheers !
P.S. David, AgfaPan 400 WAS availlable in sheet size, at least in 4x5. I've 2 or 3 boxes in my fridge (best before date 1973...)
P.S. 2 : I wonder if Neopan 400 is availlable in sheet size in Japan ?

GeorgesGiralt · Apr 19, 2007

Oh, I forgot,
Mr Galley, I shoot minimum 1.5 boxes of TMY a year (50 sheet boxes) and I'm ready to switch ;-)

David A. Goldfarb · Apr 19, 2007

I think Amund is right. I checked the megaperls shop, and they only advertise Acros (100) in sheet sizes.

Amund · Apr 19, 2007

David A. Goldfarb said:
I think Amund is right. I checked the megaperls shop, and they only advertise Acros (100) in sheet sizes.

As far as I know, they used to sell Neopan 400 in sheets, but stopped a few years back...

waynecrider · Apr 19, 2007

I have a half of a box of 4x5 Delta 400 in the freezer just being saved for the right trip. I'd buy a quantity for use and cold storage. I need a UV transmitting base.

BradS · Apr 19, 2007

Assuming that pricing would be comparable to say, HP5+ or TMY, I'd be willing to put up a 50% down payment on 100 sheets of 4x5 and another 50 or so of 5x7...

Simon? Can you give us a way to put our money where our mouth is?

yeah, I know...a book keeping, contractual nightmare.

MikeK · Apr 19, 2007

BradS said:
Was delta 400 ever available in sheets? If not, I wonder why not. Perhaps, there is some technical reason similar to that for SFX200?

Yes Delta 400 was available in 5x7 sheet film. I still have two unopened boxes in my deep freeze

Cannot remember when it was discontinued in this size but must be a least 6 years ago.

Mike

Simon R Galley · Apr 20, 2007

As promised I will discuss internally and let you know.

Simon.

MikeK · Apr 20, 2007

Simon R Galley said:
As promised I will discuss internally and let you know.

Simon.

You and your decisions will be in my thoughts and prayers

Tom Duffy · Apr 21, 2007

Delta 400 in sheet film would be nice, but Delta 3200 in 4x5 would be awesome!

GeorgesGiralt · Apr 21, 2007

In fact, IMHO, all films in sheet would be exellent !
Why ? Because on 35 mm size, digital is superior, in 120, it is a bit on the expensive side to go digital, but, who knows ?
4x5 and above will keep the competition for some time, so sheet film may be the last film availlable....
And, as far as grain is concerned, it will be good.... to have high speed film in order to depart from digital capture......

MikeK · Apr 21, 2007

GeorgesGiralt said:
In fact, IMHO, all films in sheet would be exellent !
Why ? Because on 35 mm size, digital is superior, ......

Arrgh!!!!!!!! The "D" word

agGNOME · Apr 21, 2007

GeorgesGiralt said:
...Why ? Because on 35 mm size, digital is superior...

I completely respect this opinion (not hoping to create a debate), but I really think this depends on your criteria. In my opinion d* resolution and sharpness is really just a case of trompe-l'oeil. This is particularly noticeable on any large degree of enlargement. There are no doubt admirable qualities for both. However, it sometimes pains me to think that some would not use 35mm film on the basis of resolution or sharpness.

glbeas · Apr 22, 2007

I wouldn't call it superior but in that format the D word is more convenient and give a faster result for those who have short attention spans.

GeorgesGiralt · Apr 22, 2007

Hi Guys !
Have a look here :
http://www.galerie-photo.com/zeiss-super-ikonta-canon-350d.html
Text is in French, but it is quite interesting .... And images speak for themselves !

Removed Account · Apr 23, 2007

GeorgesGiralt said:
Hi Guys !
Have a look here :
http://www.galerie-photo.com/zeiss-super-ikonta-canon-350d.html
Text is in French, but it is quite interesting .... And images speak for themselves !

English Translation, courtesy of Google.

Very interesting...

It would be good to have Delta 400 in sheet

GeorgesGiralt

matt miller

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

BradS

David A. Goldfarb

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Simon R Galley

Amund

bdial

David A. Goldfarb

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GeorgesGiralt

GeorgesGiralt

David A. Goldfarb

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Amund

waynecrider

BradS

MikeK

Simon R Galley

MikeK

Tom Duffy

GeorgesGiralt

MikeK

agGNOME

glbeas

GeorgesGiralt

Removed Account

It would be good to have Delta 400 in sheet

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