It may be time to get serious...

Stephanie Brim · Feb 9, 2006

(Posted on rangefinderforum.com as well, but I figure it wouldn't hurt to come here with it as well.)

I'm really getting to the point where I want to print on my own. I know of the perfect area for this...it would even be wet.

There is an 8'x8' area in the laundry room in this house that would be perfect for a darkroom setup. It has counters, a sink, storage cupboards, and would be very easy to seal off light tight with a blackout curtain. The main problem I'd have would be convincing everyone to let me use the space that doesn't really understand this hobby of mine.

I'll have $400 coming from taxes (which we all know) and I'm really pondering having *this* be what I spend it on. It would be so much easier for me if I had an actual darkroom. Using the space I have in mindhas two problems, though, I think.

The sink is actually where some water drains to...probably from the air conditioning. I couldn't block that. I was actually thinking of just using standing tubs of water or getting myself some tanks to set on the actual counters to fill trays with. The local store sells nice 2.5 reusable water dispensers for around $8...may be something to look into.

The other thing is more important: The ceiling in the part of the basement I'm thinking of setting up in hasn't been finished. I don't know where I'd hang the blackout curtain. Then again, this could be a good thing...I could hang it from the wood beams and it could be easier to make it light tight...not sure. The best solution would be a black covering that I could cover the entire space with...but I don't see that happening.

Also, ventilation. Not much there. I'd probably have to work for a little while and then let the place air out. Using an odorless stop/fix may help with this, though, and that's something that I've been looking into.

The ideal thing would be something that I could take down when I'm finished. The entire area would be about 8'x5' finished if I just used the one counter without the sink or 8'x8' if I used both counters.

Does anyone have any advice? Anything would be appreciated.

Sean · Feb 9, 2006

I'd be concerned about dust depending on the dryer situation (does it vent outside? also people pulling clothes out of the dryer might be a dust storm). Also I tried the blackout curtain thing once and was amazed at the dust filling the air when the curtain was touched but many people seem to use them. I would try to finish the room as much as possible so all surfaces are clean, and maybe run a mechanical hepa filter 24x7 (should be able to pick a decent one up for 50 bucks or so). Would be good if you could post a few snapshots of the room in question. I am a real maniac with dust prevention because I hate spotting prints. At the moment all my negs and prints come out needing zero spotting. Sounds like you are on your way

atenlaugh · Feb 9, 2006

I've often found myself setting up darkrooms in less than ideal places. What I've learned, is, with some patience, nearly any place can be a darkroom; I used to use my father's basement (as unfinished as yours sounds, and right beside a woodshop!), and I could only print at night. It did, of course, require some creative modes of working.

What I mean to say is: go for it. You sounded somewhat unsure, due to curcumstances, but don't let that stop you. Work with what you've got, be safe, and it'll be great fun!

Stephanie Brim · Feb 9, 2006

This is bound to be a challenge, definitely...but getting it done in the way I want it will be *so* satisfying and making my first print will be even more so...even if it does come out completely over or underexposed.

My grandfather would have to give me use of the area first since it's HIS basement and then I'd have to have him help me move a few things to get set up. I think that, with my enlarger purchase (which is just shipping thanks to someone) I can easily do this for about $300. But some questions.

What is the best material to make a blackout curtain out of? What is the best way to hang it? Should I actually consider making a tent-like structure? Could a zipper be used to make the door to preserve light tightness?

I'm starting to get these images in my brain of a kind of tent-like thing that would be easy to take down when I didn't really need it...the top and sides are all made of a blackout cloth material, it drapes to the floor to prevent light from coming in...

Hrm. This sounds doable. Wonder if I could make a frame with pipe, metal or otherwise... I'm a good hand with a sewing machine.

Andy K · Feb 9, 2006

Hi Stephanie. Maybe you could build something like this. Obviously this is out of your price range to buy, but constructing something similar shouldn't be too difficult.

Nige · Feb 9, 2006

Here's what I'd do... 1st clarify with your grandfather if you can use the space, and if so what mods you're allowed to make. No point guessing, get the boundries defined up front.

Being a basement, is it already pretty dark (I have no clue... houses around here don't have them). If it's pretty dark, hanging some blackout cloth near the edges of the room to form a tent like structure might be possible. makemit so you can put it up when required if you have to. If you're allowed, lining the ealls with something would be the preferred option. Enlarger and trays on a bench and away you go (I'm assuming you've got power handy?). A bucket of water to rinses prints (RC) or hold (FB) before transporting to wherever you can wash them, you don't need running water next to the trays.

As far as dust goes, I subscribe to another method. I clean the neg scrupulously before putting it in the neg carrier (which you have to do anyway), and I don't do much print spotting either. There's plenty of dust other places though!

Stephanie Brim · Feb 9, 2006

Andy K said:
Hi Stephanie. Maybe you could build something like this. Obviously this is out of your price range to buy, but constructing something similar shouldn't be too difficult.

This is pretty much what I thought of doing. Any good ideas where to get fabric?

Andy K · Feb 9, 2006

I use my kitchen as a darkroom. It has one old Victorian sash window (about five feet high by three wide) and one door. I bought about thirty feet of white velcro, and enough blackout material to cover the window and door. Because the velcro is white it does not notice on the outside edges of the door and window frames. All I do when I need my darkroom is fix the blackout material to the door and window and I have a totally dark room to work in.

I got my blackout material from Second Hand Darkroom Supplies fairly cheaply. I don't know if they ship internationally, maybe someone knows a similar company where you are.

ricksplace · Feb 9, 2006

Hi Stephanie.

I have used pond liner as a blackout. It is a fairly thick rubberized liner used in making those goofy ponds with the fountains that some people like in their yards. (If I ever have one, I'd have two little guys peeing on each other).

It can be purchased from most landscaping stores. It is a little heavy, and not really cheap, but it is available. I tried to find a cloth darkcloth by taking a flash unit to a fabric store and flashing it when covered by what looked like a suitable cloth. No luck. All the fabrics I tried let light through. No jokes about flashing in a fabric store please...

You might want to try the flash in the fabric store first, maybe you will find a suitable fabric for cheap.

My current darkroom is in a large laundry room. The availability of running water is nice, and dust is not an insurmountable problem. Rather than build a separate room, I used the available space in the laundry room, just as you intend to do. Go for it!

Rick.

matt miller · Feb 9, 2006

When I first set up a darkroom in the basement, I used a roll of heavy black plastic and a staple gun to make it light tight. The plastic can be purchased at any Home Depot type store. Cheap too. You can just over run two layers for a light tight entrance. I stapled the plastic to the floor joists overhead and let it hang down onto the floor a few inches. Worked great.

df cardwell · Feb 9, 2006

Hi Stephanie

A good thing to cover windows is insulation board, the stuff with a reflective surface on one side. Aim the shiny side OUT. Very handy with west facing windows. You may cover the seams with aluminum tape.

A muslin tarp is good for covering the floor joists overhead. It doesn't smell like plastic, and is reflective: darkrooms needn't be dark, just the right color.

To cover the door, a couple layers of black wool or cotton is better for me. It drapes better, and doesn't smell.

Grounding your enlarger to the cold water pipe helps with dust: the rest should'nt be a problem.

Feed stores, and paint stores, are often good sources for heavy duty buckets. There are all kinds of water container / hand pump solutions that are inexpensive and useful.

A good source for containers and pumps is http://www.bascousa.com/store

They make small hand pumps like: http://www.bascousa.com/store/item.aspx?ITEM_ID=158

With a 5 gallon pail like: http://www.bascousa.com/store/index.aspx?DEPARTMENT_ID=140

you can have a convenient source for water, and be able to dispense it safely without running hoses and the like.

.

MattKing · Feb 9, 2006

Stephanie:

Do I understand correctly that you are intending to create a room within a (laundry) room here? If so, have you considered adapting the entire laundry room so as to make it light tight when you are working (with temporary covers, etc.) but only using a small part of the room when you are actually printing? Sometimes that can be much easier to do.

With laundry rooms (as compared to bathrooms and kitchens) it is usually much less of an inconvenience for others to have the rooms unavailable for periods of time, and if someone does need to access the room while you are printing, more often than not a 5-10 minute warning will be sufficient to allow you to protect anything light sensitive.

Just something to consider.

mikeb_z5 · Feb 9, 2006

Stephanie Brim said:
What is the best material to make a blackout curtain out of? What is the best way to hang it? Should I actually consider making a tent-like structure? Could a zipper be used to make the door to preserve light tightness?

I recently purchased some heavy duty grey vinyl tarps from home depot. lightproof and only $18 ea for a 12' x 20' tarp. I am in an unfinished basement and screwed them into the floor joists at 1ft intervals. I had enough tarp left over to fashion a light trap so I wouldn't need a door going into the darkroom.

Mike

grahamp · Feb 10, 2006

If I follow the original description, we have a portion of the basement area which is 8' x 8' including counters, and the ceiling is unfinished (joists). This sounds like a non-rectangular basement, and the proposed work area is an embayment requiring one wall, or else the counter(s) project into the basement space and we need two or three walls.

You could use blackout fabric to form one or more walls to your space. Make the fabric long enough to drape on the floor, and include curtain weights. For a door you could just overlap a few feet. If you need to get the 'walls' out of the way for domestic purposes, you could use a length of cord and make an Austrian blind effect by pulling the curtains to the ceiling.

Depending on the joist run you may need to put in a ceiling to make light trapping easier. Fabric would work, or a thin skin of hardboard/plywood.

Ideally it should be possible to have white light outside the darkroom area at all times. It reduces domestic opposition!

You could add light-trap vents in the fabric for air circulation. Not perfect, but every little helps.

Darkroom cloth from somewhere like Porters would chew up your budget, though your shipping would be better than it is to California. They quote $124 + shipping for 10 yds of 60", and you would need at least 2.5 yds to go floor to ceiling. Opaque black plastic should be a cheaper choice. Even two layers if it isn't fully opaque.

It sounds feasible, and the permanent effect on the space should be minimal.

ricksplace · Feb 10, 2006

The first darkroom I had I made out of cardboard. I went to a furniture store and asked for refrigerator cartons (free). I used the cardboard as light tight walls, and glued it to ceiling joists, floors, and other pieces of cardboard with caulk. My parents' house had a huge unfinished basement. I can't remember what I used for cloth for the door. I was 14.

Soeren · Feb 10, 2006

When I used our darkroom as a makeshift bathroom, or the other way around, I used two pieces of cardboard Gaffaed together to blackout the window and a towel in front of the keyhole in the door. I couldn't use the room when the sun was out because the heat would make the cardboard sandwich bend. If I had used a thicker single piece or maybe some plywood or something it probably wouldn't have been a problem.
Regards Søren

Will S · Feb 10, 2006

Remember that you only need running water to process/wash film and wash prints, and that can be done in light.

You don't really need running water at all in the darkroom where you do enlarging or contact printing.

I'd use that area for washing prints and processing film and find another spot for the enlarger to go, like a closet maybe. Being near a dryer you are always going to have dust.

I've got a plan somewhere for a rolling darkroom setup that can live in a closet. You might look around for something like that.

Good luck!

Will

Stephanie Brim · Feb 14, 2006

I've found out that I have to use the bathroom. There I *will* have access to running water. The main problem will be keeping things at the temperatures needed...and I think I'll try to see about getting some sort of a heating system...if I can get it cheaply, that is.

Mick Fagan · Feb 14, 2006

Stephanie, does your bathroom, have a bath in it?

The reason I ask, is that I've used many bathrooms for a darkroom, ones with a bath are terrific.

What I do, is run three pieces of timber along the top of the bath, lengthways. I then place my trays along these beams.

Any spillage is easy to clean up after a session, as one only has to wipe the bath.

Mick.

Stephanie Brim · Feb 14, 2006

Unfortunately no...just a shower. Looking at the possibility of getting a folding table or a table with wheels. Dunno quite what I'm going to do yet. I just know that I want to eFile my tax return ASAP...there's some good deals on Ebay right now.

Claire Senft · Feb 14, 2006

Gee Stephanie, I am dissapointed. Here it is Valentines day and I read a lady thinks it is time to get serious. Well, I am not one to take offense.

Be my Valentine.

It may be time to get serious...

Stephanie Brim

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