Issues with Epson P900 definitely not like the 3880

[ymc226]

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I had posted in a few other photo forums but was not getting many responses so am posting on PHOTRIO. Background: I am a hobbyist who really enjoys the print, frame and mat many prints but more recently print less frequently. Previously had a 3880 that survived many prolonged periods of inactivity with just nozzle cleanings but a move across country which entailed a one year storage finally killed it. Otherwise, no paper handling issues from the top rear loader for Epson and Canson fine art papers ranging from 8.5x11" up to 17x22."

Presently, I am using an Epson P900 (bought new but 3-4 years old now) which is giving me several significant problems including black smudging (?head strikes) on both the trailing and leading areas and more importantly, the trailing part of the print moves slightly giving a "blurring" and shifting of the paper so the print starts off centered and straight but at the end, is askew. It's like the printer is not holding down the trailing edge hard enough that the paper slips while finishing the print. These are the most recent issues and with 8 1/2 x 11" paper to boot which never had an issue. While new, the printer worked well and loaded precut 13x19" and 17x22" straight; however, quickly it developed an issue where these paper sizes were taken up a little askew requiring me to keep modest pressure on both print guides. Finally, upon opening the printer cover, the linear area covered by a thin sponge is saturated with black ink but is not at the level to cause the smudging on my print. All my paper is fed via the top rear loader.

I have been using ImagePrint Black RIP which has been managing the printer controls so nothing has changed. ImagePrint adjusts the printer depending on paper type and thickness. Wanting to stay in the 17" format, I am considering a new printer as reading on various forums regarding the P900, it seems Epson is not able to fix these issues and more or less recommends a new printer which no guarantee of proper future performance. I then looked at the P5370 but forum postings also indicated paper take up which can be askew. Are there other reported issues with this model? It is also 30" deep and very heavy so this may not be an option.

As ImagePrint also supports Canon printers, I am considering this manufacturer as well. How is the Canon Profgraf Pro-1100? Has it been more trouble free or are there issues such as this that causes time, ink and paper to be wasted? It seems this printer is widely backordered. Does that mean there have been issues with the new model or is it that good that everyone is buying one? What printer would tolerate less frequent printing. Would the fact that the Canon printhead can be changed out by the end user also be an advantage?

I did speak with Epson support regarding the P900 and the rep told me these issues reflected multiple signs of hardware failure and to take it to service. He also gave me the number for product support to learn about the the 5370 if I was interested. Calling that number, I also told the second rep about the P900 issues and he stated that the top rear feed feeder was not meant for art paper such as Epson Hot Press Bright or Exhibition Fiber Paper and that eventually the mechanism would wear and cause the issues I am experiencing. He suggested using only the front feeder for thicker art paper. Has anyone heard that these art papers were too thick for the top rear loader? I will try this and if this works, it is good but it means I have to relocate the printer to a spot which has at least 16 inches of space behind the printer to lead the largest pre cut 17x22" paper. Most likely, I will place it on the floor.

 

[koraks]

Most likely, I will place it on the floor.

If you run a tight ship, that might work, but in general, I personally try to keep all such devices off the floor by a generous margin because of dust problems.

The paper transport issues you mention sound like poorly engineered paper path solutions to me. I only have the 3880 and no p900, so I can't comment on the latter, specifically. I do recognize that also on the 3880 there are sometimes 'challenges' with particularly small paper sizes (e.g. postcards) and papers that aren't perfectly flat. Not that it helps any, but when I was doing research in industry, one company involved was a major printer manufacturer. When discussing organizational-level technological competencies with one of the engineering managers, they indicated that two domains were of key importance to them: (1) paper path robustness and (2) user interaction. This hints at the importance of the conceptual design of the paper path/handling parts and the recognition of this issue also at major players in the industry. (The firm in question did not produce consumer-grade equipment like the printers you and me use).

 

[calico]

<<Calling that number, I also told the second rep about the P900 issues and he stated that the top rear feed feeder was not meant for art paper such as Epson Hot Press Bright or Exhibition Fiber Paper and that eventually the mechanism would wear and cause the issues I am experiencing. He suggested using only the front feeder for thicker art paper. Has anyone heard that these art papers were too thick for the top rear loader?>>

Hmm, the rep saying that using thick art paper in top feeder will eventually ruin the P900 sounds crazy. I hope that is not true. I bought a P700 a few months ago (the smaller version of P900). I bought it because my 3880 can only print on matte paper now because the head for the black for printing on glossy paper blew and isn't worth repairing. (This head blowing is common problem on 3880, I hear.)

I was having trouble with smudges and bent paper when printing on Canson Platine and similar Hahnemuhle papers on the P700. After searching forums, I learned about the "Thick paper" setting in the menu on the printer (not in software on computer). That pretty much solved the problem. Do occasionally get a little fraying of top edge of paper.

You are using some other software, so it sounds like it is over-riding the in-printer software? Have you tried not using your RIP and using the "thick paper" setting on printer and the settings in Photoshop print windows?

If you do want to try printing without your RIP, keep in mind that the "thick paper" setting goes away when you turn the printer off, so you have to reset each time you use thick paper. On the 3880, I could adjust platen gap in the settings in Photoshop. Makes more sense to have all settings in the software on the computer, not have to use a dumb little window on the printer with primitive menu for some settings.

But it sounds like your RIP was working fine in the past, so it does sound like you have a hardware issue.

As for using the front loading:

I tried that before I learned about the "thick paper" setting for top loading. I kept getting error message on the printer saying the paper did not match paper setting, even though it did, on both the printer and in computer. I'd have to check my notes for all the details, but it was very frustrating. When I got things going okay with top loading, I just stopped trying to use bottom feeder.

From what I read on other forums, Epson tech support is notoriously unhelpful. Some people are told you can only use Epson paper! How absurd is that?

Have you found the photopxl forum yet? That's where I learned about the "thick paper" setting and got some other good info. This is a page I had bookmarked. Don't know if anything useful there for you, just using it to direct you to the forum.

Epson P900 Paper Feeding Problems - PhotoPXL

I bought an Epson P900 six months ago and once I got everything calibrated it was working just fine. Every paper I put into it fed perfectly from Epson Premium Luster, a thin paper, to Canson Edition Etching a thicker 310gsm paper. Last week I placed an 11x17 piece of Moab Entrada Natural 300, a...

photopxl.com

These printers can be so frustrating. I had so much trouble with head clogs on 3880. Thankfully, have not had that problem on the P700 -- at least not yet. But I suffer through the problems because I can't send files off to be printed at a lab -- where I can't make adjustments and pay $40 per 8 x 10.

Please let us know if you get the P900 working again.

 

[koraks]

my 3880 can only print on matte paper now because the head for the black for printing on glossy paper blew

Note that the 3880 does not have a dedicated head for any particular channel. It has one monolithic head. Furthermore, for the black channel, the same set of nozzles is used for matte black and photo black ink. This means that if your 3880 still prints OK on matte black, the head is not clogged and if the print quality is otherwise in order, the head therefore must be in fully functional state. It is conceivable that the ink line that runs from the photo black cartridge is clogged, or that there's a clog or malfunction on the matte/glossy black ink selector module. It's been a while since I took my 3880 apart so my memory is hazy on that part of the system. All I can say with absolute certainty is that if the head is clogged on the black channel, it'll affect glossy as well as matte paper selections.
An ink clog like this is potentially fixable if you're willing to take the printer apart. It's a bit of work, but it's not insanely difficult. There are a few YouTube videos that show the disassembly procedure. No special tools are required.

 

[calico]

My reply would not post if I hit "reply". This is to Koraks:

I probably didn't use the correct terms for what is wrong. Must not have been a head, from what you're saying. It's been a few years since the problem occurred. Also, I am not well-versed on the inner workings of printers.


When I researched it at the time, it sounded like something was broken (not just clogged) related to printing on glossy paper. HUGE blobs of black ink would be on the paper when printing on glossy paper. Prints fine on matte paper. I know the black cartridges change for printing glossy vs matte paper, apparently related to that.


From what I read on forums, it was a common problem for 3880 and people got estimates from Epson of $500 to fix it. I don't think I called Epson myself. I'd have to dig out my notes to see what part of machine people said was malfunctioning.



Maybe it could be something I could fix myself, as you say, if I were willing to try. But I have the P700 now. It IS a shame to have this big hunk of hardware (3880) just half working, though.

 

[koraks]

I've had some clogging issues on the 3880, but not related to the Pk/Mk changeover subsystem yet, and also nothing that some thorough cleaning and replacement of the ink dump/power cleaning section didn't resolve. With a printer like this one, it really makes sense to try and fix it. They're still quite usable machines and unfixed, they're basically a very big type of brick anyway.

 

[ymc226]

<<Calling that number, I also told the second rep about the P900 issues and he stated that the top rear feed feeder was not meant for art paper such as Epson Hot Press Bright or Exhibition Fiber Paper and that eventually the mechanism would wear and cause the issues I am experiencing. He suggested using only the front feeder for thicker art paper. Has anyone heard that these art papers were too thick for the top rear loader?>>

Hmm, the rep saying that using thick art paper in top feeder will eventually ruin the P900 sounds crazy. I hope that is not true. I bought a P700 a few months ago (the smaller version of P900). I bought it because my 3880 can only print on matte paper now because the head for the black for printing on glossy paper blew and isn't worth repairing. (This head blowing is common problem on 3880, I hear.)

I was having trouble with smudges and bent paper when printing on Canson Platine and similar Hahnemuhle papers on the P700. After searching forums, I learned about the "Thick paper" setting in the menu on the printer (not in software on computer). That pretty much solved the problem. Do occasionally get a little fraying of top edge of paper.

You are using some other software, so it sounds like it is over-riding the in-printer software? Have you tried not using your RIP and using the "thick paper" setting on printer and the settings in Photoshop print windows?

If you do want to try printing without your RIP, keep in mind that the "thick paper" setting goes away when you turn the printer off, so you have to reset each time you use thick paper. On the 3880, I could adjust platen gap in the settings in Photoshop. Makes more sense to have all settings in the software on the computer, not have to use a dumb little window on the printer with primitive menu for some settings.

But it sounds like your RIP was working fine in the past, so it does sound like you have a hardware issue.

As for using the front loading:

I tried that before I learned about the "thick paper" setting for top loading. I kept getting error message on the printer saying the paper did not match paper setting, even though it did, on both the printer and in computer. I'd have to check my notes for all the details, but it was very frustrating. When I got things going okay with top loading, I just stopped trying to use bottom feeder.

From what I read on other forums, Epson tech support is notoriously unhelpful. Some people are told you can only use Epson paper! How absurd is that?

Have you found the photopxl forum yet? That's where I learned about the "thick paper" setting and got some other good info. This is a page I had bookmarked. Don't know if anything useful there for you, just using it to direct you to the forum.

Epson P900 Paper Feeding Problems - PhotoPXL

I bought an Epson P900 six months ago and once I got everything calibrated it was working just fine. Every paper I put into it fed perfectly from Epson Premium Luster, a thin paper, to Canson Edition Etching a thicker 310gsm paper. Last week I placed an 11x17 piece of Moab Entrada Natural 300, a...

photopxl.com

These printers can be so frustrating. I had so much trouble with head clogs on 3880. Thankfully, have not had that problem on the P700 -- at least not yet. But I suffer through the problems because I can't send files off to be printed at a lab -- where I can't make adjustments and pay $40 per 8 x 10.

Please let us know if you get the P900 working again.

Thanks for the recommendation for PhotoPXL. I occasionally visit that site but haven't for a while. I was also a little incredulous being told the top rear feeder was not meant for Epson's own fine art paper as many years of using the 3880 similarly did not hurt it.

Taking the reps advice and using the front single feeder multiple times, initially with letter size and then increasing to 13x19" seems to work but there is still a hint of faint black smudging on the trailing print border that is lessening. The front feeder mechanism is not consistent in that 3 times out of 10, when loading letter sized paper, an error occurs which takes a while for the printer to reset. However, the feeder loads the paper straight and true. If this workaround continues to allow the P900 to be used, I'll put off changing to Canon's new 17" 1100 model. Have to order 4 more ink cartridges soon and am a little gun shy. I'll continue to make large test prints up to 17x22", putting the printer through several stress tests. Hopefully the front feeder continues to operate properly, the faint black smudging disappears and no new issues appear. Have ordered a mobile table height flat top cart to place the printer on as front loading requires up to 17" of free space in the back when using larger paper formats.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

<<Calling that number, I also told the second rep about the P900 issues and he stated that the top rear feed feeder was not meant for art paper such as Epson Hot Press Bright or Exhibition Fiber Paper and that eventually the mechanism would wear and cause the issues I am experiencing. He suggested using only the front feeder for thicker art paper. Has anyone heard that these art papers were too thick for the top rear loader?>>

Hmm, the rep saying that using thick art paper in top feeder will eventually ruin the P900 sounds crazy. I hope that is not true. I bought a P700 a few months ago (the smaller version of P900). I bought it because my 3880 can only print on matte paper now because the head for the black for printing on glossy paper blew and isn't worth repairing. (This head blowing is common problem on 3880, I hear.)

I was having trouble with smudges and bent paper when printing on Canson Platine and similar Hahnemuhle papers on the P700. After searching forums, I learned about the "Thick paper" setting in the menu on the printer (not in software on computer). That pretty much solved the problem. Do occasionally get a little fraying of top edge of paper.

You are using some other software, so it sounds like it is over-riding the in-printer software? Have you tried not using your RIP and using the "thick paper" setting on printer and the settings in Photoshop print windows?

If you do want to try printing without your RIP, keep in mind that the "thick paper" setting goes away when you turn the printer off, so you have to reset each time you use thick paper. On the 3880, I could adjust platen gap in the settings in Photoshop. Makes more sense to have all settings in the software on the computer, not have to use a dumb little window on the printer with primitive menu for some settings.

But it sounds like your RIP was working fine in the past, so it does sound like you have a hardware issue.

As for using the front loading:

I tried that before I learned about the "thick paper" setting for top loading. I kept getting error message on the printer saying the paper did not match paper setting, even though it did, on both the printer and in computer. I'd have to check my notes for all the details, but it was very frustrating. When I got things going okay with top loading, I just stopped trying to use bottom feeder.

From what I read on other forums, Epson tech support is notoriously unhelpful. Some people are told you can only use Epson paper! How absurd is that?

Have you found the photopxl forum yet? That's where I learned about the "thick paper" setting and got some other good info. This is a page I had bookmarked. Don't know if anything useful there for you, just using it to direct you to the forum.

Epson P900 Paper Feeding Problems - PhotoPXL

I bought an Epson P900 six months ago and once I got everything calibrated it was working just fine. Every paper I put into it fed perfectly from Epson Premium Luster, a thin paper, to Canson Edition Etching a thicker 310gsm paper. Last week I placed an 11x17 piece of Moab Entrada Natural 300, a...

photopxl.com

These printers can be so frustrating. I had so much trouble with head clogs on 3880. Thankfully, have not had that problem on the P700 -- at least not yet. But I suffer through the problems because I can't send files off to be printed at a lab -- where I can't make adjustments and pay $40 per 8 x 10.

Please let us know if you get the P900 working again.

reading all of the above, I'm glad I dumped my 3880 and send it all to Whitewall now!

 

[fgorga]

My reply would not post if I hit "reply". This is to Koraks:

I probably didn't use the correct terms for what is wrong. Must not have been a head, from what you're saying. It's been a few years since the problem occurred. Also, I am not well-versed on the inner workings of printers.


When I researched it at the time, it sounded like something was broken (not just clogged) related to printing on glossy paper. HUGE blobs of black ink would be on the paper when printing on glossy paper. Prints fine on matte paper. I know the black cartridges change for printing glossy vs matte paper, apparently related to that.


From what I read on forums, it was a common problem for 3880 and people got estimates from Epson of $500 to fix it. I don't think I called Epson myself. I'd have to dig out my notes to see what part of machine people said was malfunctioning.



Maybe it could be something I could fix myself, as you say, if I were willing to try. But I have the P700 now. It IS a shame to have this big hunk of hardware (3880) just half working, though.

The common problem, with the symptoms you describe, with the 3880 is a failure of the PK/Mk switching valve. It is a straight forward but messy job to replace the part. I've not done it myself but know folks who have. You should be able to find instructions on YouTube. Last I knew the replacement part was available from third party suppliers. I haven't looked recently so do not know if this is still true.

Personally, my 3880 with a defective valve is simply dedicated to matte paper these days. When the valve went (streaks of black ink all over the edges of the paper upon a switch to PK ink), I simply switched back to the MK ink. I then ran a few prints on cheap paper to get rid of any 'spilled' ink. The printer has been working fine (on matte paper only) for several years now.

 

[calico]

The common problem, with the symptoms you describe, with the 3880 is a failure of the PK/Mk switching valve. It is a straight forward but messy job to replace the part. I've not done it myself but know folks who have. You should be able to find instructions on YouTube. Last I knew the replacement part was available from third party suppliers. I haven't looked recently so do not know if this is still true.

Personally, my 3880 with a defective valve is simply dedicated to matte paper these days. When the valve went (streaks of black ink all over the edges of the paper upon a switch to PK ink), I simply switched back to the MK ink. I then ran a few prints on cheap paper to get rid of any 'spilled' ink. The printer has been working fine (on matte paper only) for several years now.

Thank you for properly describing my 3880 problem -- "failure of PK/MK switching valve."

I have done exactly what you have done, only use that printer for matte paper now. I may just switch to the P700 for everything after I use up the 3880 ink. I had spent a fortune on ink just before the switching valve problem. But, of course, all the ink cartridges won't become empty simultaneously, so there will be waste if I abandon 3880.

Then what will I do with it? Take to tech recycling? I hate the way all these tech things become garbage at some point.

 

[calico]

Thanks for the recommendation for PhotoPXL. I occasionally visit that site but haven't for a while. I was also a little incredulous being told the top rear feeder was not meant for Epson's own fine art paper as many years of using the 3880 similarly did not hurt it.

Taking the reps advice and using the front single feeder multiple times, initially with letter size and then increasing to 13x19" seems to work but there is still a hint of faint black smudging on the trailing print border that is lessening. The front feeder mechanism is not consistent in that 3 times out of 10, when loading letter sized paper, an error occurs which takes a while for the printer to reset. However, the feeder loads the paper straight and true. If this workaround continues to allow the P900 to be used, I'll put off changing to Canon's new 17" 1100 model. Have to order 4 more ink cartridges soon and am a little gun shy. I'll continue to make large test prints up to 17x22", putting the printer through several stress tests. Hopefully the front feeder continues to operate properly, the faint black smudging disappears and no new issues appear. Have ordered a mobile table height flat top cart to place the printer on as front loading requires up to 17" of free space in the back when using larger paper formats.

Glad you got the front feeder to work. Hope it keeps working, and you don't have to buy a new printer!

I was considering a Canon before I bought the P700. Read all the horror stories about feeder problems in the Epsons. But the way the Canons use up so much ink every time it is turned on -- I guess it automatically does a head clean? -- scared me off. I was at least familiar with Epsons. The devil you know.....

 

[calico]

reading all of the above, I'm glad I dumped my 3880 and send it all to Whitewall now!

I've read that Whitewall is great. But even with my calibrated monitor, I still make little adjustments when printing which wouldn't be possible if sending files off. Or I would spend a fortune having them redo prints. I also like to experiment with different papers here at home.

Glad it's working for you, though!

 

[calico]

I've had some clogging issues on the 3880, but not related to the Pk/Mk changeover subsystem yet, and also nothing that some thorough cleaning and replacement of the ink dump/power cleaning section didn't resolve. With a printer like this one, it really makes sense to try and fix it. They're still quite usable machines and unfixed, they're basically a very big type of brick anyway.

It does work fine with matte paper. But, still, I agree it's a shame for it to not be 100%.

 

[koraks]

Then what will I do with it? Take to tech recycling? I hate the way all these tech things become garbage at some point.

Sell it second hand with a clear description of the problem as you now understand it. Someone like me may pick it up, fix it and use the printer. The assembly that needs to be replaced can be bought for around $85 on eBay currently.
Sorry to have taken this off-topic...

 

[calico]

Sell it second hand with a clear description of the problem as you now understand it. Someone like me may pick it up, fix it and use the printer. The assembly that needs to be replaced can be bought for around $85 on eBay currently.
Sorry to have taken this off-topic...

Yes, I could try to sell on Ebay. But I can't even budge the 3880. Would have to get someone to help me pack it up to ship and take to shipper. Also, packing it well enough to not be damaged in shipping would be a bit of a challenge. I don't think I have original box anymore. A local sale not likely where I am.

When I have time, maybe I should look into repairing it myself, as you suggested originally.

Thanks for your input!