Issue with Patterson reels and 120 film

I recently developed my first roll of 120 film. But I had reel problems (no pun intended).

It took me like 35 minutes to get the 120 film loaded onto the plastic Patterson reel. I must have tried 80 times before I got it. 35mm ususally only takes a couple of tries.

I do know that some of my reels are better than others and load better, but I'm not sure which are which. They all look the same.

Would stainless steel reels help? Is this a known issue?

First, MF film is harder to load onto any reel than is 35mm film, in my experience. The extra width just makes it hard to get the film properly centered to start the operation.

That said, I've never been able to get 120 film loaded onto my AP or Paterson plastic reels. The ball bearings that help with 35mm film just seem to interfere with MF film, which doesn't have the edge perforations of 35mm film. My favorite reels for loading MF film are plastic reels with a couple different Russian tank designs. There's a current eBay listing for one of these. This tank is nice because it takes less fluid than most tanks. It uses a plastic reel that loads like a Paterson reel, but without the ball bearings and with a smaller diameter. The downside is that this style of tank only supports rotational agitation, not inversion agitation. I find it's tricky, but not impossible, to get it right; too much agitation produces streaks, and too little produces underdevelopment. Get it just right and the results are great, though. Overall I don't like this tank too much because I've ruined too many rolls because of the tricky agitation, although it's relatively easy to load the reel.

The other Russian tank design is uses reels that are similar to Paterson reels in size and shape, but they lack ball bearings. I've got a plastic Jobo reel (without a tank) that's similar in this respect, although I've never actually used it. I therefore expect that the Jobo reels would be easier to load than the Paterson reels.

I've got both 120 and 220 stainless steel reels. The 120 reel is relatively easy to load, but it has its quirks -- it's hard to center it properly, and when it's not properly centered, the film tends to skew off and jump the grooves when loading. Once centered, though, it loads fairly easily. The 220 reel is similar in this respect, but it's easier to get the film to jump its grooves -- I've only loaded this reel successfully a couple of times. With both reels, I tend to get crescent-shaped creases in my film from mishandling when loading.

Overall, I'm planning to use my second Russian tank for future MF endeavors, since its reel gives me the fewest problems. If it breaks, I'll get a Jobo tank to go with my Jobo reel. (I'll probably try the Jobo reel in my Russian tank -- I know it fits -- at some point.)

I had the same issue with some b&w 35. It felt like the film base was thiner than another brand that I was used to. After 45 mins. of failed attempts, and the end of the film wrinkling, I switched to a stainless reel and tank--PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!! Let me guess- you were using AristaII film, weren't you?

I think that it just requires more practice. I use the Patterson's and have no difficulty. I usually load two films on the same reel.

Make sure that the reel is completely dry.

I find that as I am removing the backing paper, and find the end of the film, I hold the film forming a V shape with my index and middle fingers, and my thumb and ring finger to load it into the gate of the reel. I can then generally push the film on to the reel, then tear off the film from the backing paper when done.

You might want to practice with some film in light to get the hang of it.

Fred.

I had the same trouble with the Patterson reels, it just took me forever to load them. Then, I replaced them with Samigon reels and I now load my film in about 1 minute. These are great reels. Find them at B + H. About $13 per reel.

I have used Paterson reels for years and never have a problem with 120.

You may want to try this trick, it can help getting the film started.

I trick I learned is to cut a piece of film box the width of the film and slide it into the groves of the spool as a guide, I do this in the light. Don't push it in too far past the ball bearings. Now when in the dark I slide the film along this card until it catches then remove the card and continue spooling.

Always works for me and beats trying to figure out where the start of the guides are in the dark.

I can empathize with problems loading plastic reels. Often, I snip a tiny corner off each side of the leading edge of the film [120 and 135]. I'm not absolutely convinced it solves the problem. My hypothesis is that the corners might be catching on the spokes of the reels. More experience seems to help above all else.

FredW said:

You might want to practice with some film in light to get the hang of it.

.

Click to expand...

This is the best advice in this thread thus far. I've used Patterson reels for over ten years and have experienced both ease (mostly) and difficulty (sometimes) with them. Practicing in the light, over and over and over again, and then with your eyes closed, or the room lights off will offer the solution to your problems. Skill demands practice...period!

B&Wpositive said:

I recently developed my first roll of 120 film. But I had reel problems (no pun intended).

It took me like 35 minutes to get the 120 film loaded onto the plastic Patterson reel. I must have tried 80 times before I got it. 35mm ususally only takes a couple of tries.

I do know that some of my reels are better than others and load better, but I'm not sure which are which. They all look the same.

Would stainless steel reels help? Is this a known issue?

Click to expand...

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One thing I found is that plastic reels must be kept scrupulously clean. I scrub them after use with a bristle pot brush on a handle, with either Bon Ami or with Bar Keeper's friend.

They must also be completely dry.

Sometimes it helps to pull the film in under the ball bearings, rather than push it.Grab the film between the the middle and index fingers on one edge and the thumb and the fourth finger on the other film edge.

If you are getting the film under the ball bearings without problems, and the film is not "walking in" without balking, I would bet money the reel has residue in the grooves.

And, whether it is plastic or SS, once you get the hang of it, you can do it in your sleep. Hang in there.

I am going to second John in the keeping clean and dry; Paterson reels are exceptionally difficult to load if you have a single drop of liquid anywhere and the least amount of gunk causes time-consuming grief. As well, practice, practice, practice (while watching TV, waiting for the water to boil, talking to your significant other, etc.).

My grief always comes when I try to load a second roll onto a single spool: if you can line it up right (and it is a really big if), you tape the end of the first film to the start of the second film and you can do two at once. However, if it is not perfectly lined up (<1 millimeter difference), the film will not go through the ball bearings and you have to unload both films to get it going again.

I use a film loader supplied by Nova Darkroom. It's a plastic holder with a spindle to slide on the Patterson reel and a hollow tube with a slit which holds the film, 120 or 35mm. It keeps things lined up and has enabled me to load without the disasters I used to have.
To get two 120 films onto one reel I push the the first film three and a half turns into the reel with my finger giving it the occasional twist if it gets a bit stiff. The second film loads in easily with no overlapping.

Tony

Practice makes it easier to load 120. I've been using Paterson tanks and reels for 35 years, and yes I still use the first one I bought, you just have to develop a routine ( pun intended ) to work around the quirkiness. Nipping the corners of the film is a must, so is using only DRY reels, scrubbing them after use helps, lots of good advice here.

Some tips I've found useful.
1. Paterson reels are much easier to load if the humidity is low. If the humidity is high (where I live - Sydney, Australia - it's often quite high), I give the reels a blast with a hair dryer.
2. First cut the film from the backing paper, but make sure that you leave some of the adhesive tape on the film. Then feed the end with the adhesive tape into the reel - the extra stiffness provided by the tape makes feeding easier (provided you do a neat job of cutting.)
3. Practice, practice in the daylight.

I've found that tape is crucial for loading 120 on Paterson reels. I don't cut the film from the backing paper but rather carefully remove the whole tape from it. I fold the tape over the film end and this gives me sufficient stiffness to load the film. The width of the 120 causes it to curl which makes it difficult to get both corners into the reel opening - that double tape helps a lot.

Bob H

NIP the corners

I agree with corner nipping.

Cutting a tiny nip off each lead corner just before loading ALWAYS solves any problem I have with 120 film on the Patterson reels.

Try a slight reverse bend in the end of the film before loading it. This stiffens the film end and helps align it in the slots. I unwind mine a little at a time, and wind in carefully so that it does not crimp. Start the film at least 1/2 way round the spool before you try ratcheting. It is less likely to slide out of the reel!

With clean and dry reels you can often push the film in a long way. If a corner catches

Thank you to everyone who took the time to offer tips and suggestions. There is a lot of useful advice here.