Issue with Overexposure in VERY Contrasty Scenes

AutumnJazz · May 13, 2008

I just got my first roll of Fomapan R100 back. I shot it a few weeks ago on a very sunny day in NYC. I have a couple (literally two) slides where half of or the majority of the picture was in the shade, and the rest was in the bright sun.

The shade is perfectly exposed, but the sunny area is grossly overexposed.

Is this due to my camera, or the film not having enough contrast? Is there any way to get scenes like that to not be screwed up (bracketing? compasting back a stop or two?)?

I would post examples, but I don't have a scanner.

Edit: I use a Nikon F100, if that helps.

Uhner · May 13, 2008

I am not an expert on positive black and white films, but I do believe that they are not well suited for taming high contrast scenes like the ones you mention.

Michel Hardy-Vallée · May 13, 2008

R100 is a reversal film if I am not mistaken, and thus has much less usable latitude than negative film.

With negative film, what you do in these situations is that you expose the film more than usual and develop less than usual.

Note that in your case, the light situation you have chosen might have been too much even for a negative B&W film.

thuggins · May 13, 2008

AutumnJazz said:
The shade is perfectly exposed, but the sunny area is grossly overexposed.

It's not the camera or the film. It's the photographer. No imaging technology can resolve extreme contrast, but B&W film is better than color film. They are both far better than d*&%^@l. Be aware of your composition and lighting. Understand what your meter is registering and adjust your exposure accordingly.

keithwms · May 13, 2008

The strategy with slide film is [usually] to meter to preserve the highlights, and let the shadows fall where they may. With print film people often do the opposite or at least don't sweat the highlights quite so much. Which way did you meter, and what was the range in your scene? It sounds like you may have metered using print-film logic, rather than figuring out whether your highlights would be within range (5 or 6 stops or so I guess). Slide film punishes you severely in the highlights for overexposure.

AutumnJazz · May 14, 2008

Well, I'm still learning, so I was bad and let the camera do all the metering work for me.

If I compose another shadow/light scene, I will be sure to underexpose and bracket a shot or two.

I should really get a book.

keithwms · May 14, 2008

Do not think of it as underexposing, or changing your rating etc. I really think that's not the best way to think about it. You simply need to measure subject brightness range.

Meter for the scene contrast / brightness range. Put your F100 in spot mode and take readings, in aperture or shutter priority, of the recommended exposures from the deepest shadows to the brightest highlights. If the total number of stops is 6 or less , then you can get by with just average metering. If it is 6 or 7, then decide how much highlight detail you wish to preserve and adjust accordingly. If it is 7 or more, then reach for print film

Disclaimer for slide experts: yes I realize there are many caveats such as colour temp and reciprocity etc., and you can preflash, but this is meant as a simple, quickstart guide!

I like to use a gossen digipro f to do my sbr metering- you just wave it around and it gives a handy readout of the range in aperture stops. It allows you to do this in incident or reflective mode, and can flash meter as well. For pricier sheet film shots with no option to bracket, I use a dslr histogram to meter.

AutumnJazz · May 14, 2008

I don't think I'm ready to spend $300 on a light meter.

I wonder though, what does it say about me if I went straight to blaming the film or camera instead of my technique, or rather, lack of technique?

pesphoto · May 14, 2008

Do you bracket your exposures? This would be helpful in tricky lighting scenerios. You will learn by doing and shooting. Film is cheap so go out, do some tests and write down your exposures for each frame you shoot. Develop your film and see what is what. Best way to learn, a book can't substitute experience.

AutumnJazz · May 15, 2008

I'm still pretty much learning the ins and outs of this camera, so I was messing around with it today, and guess what I found. Note: I got this camera used.

It was compensated +1.7 stops.

I find this strange, as normal shots look like, normal shots. They don't appear to be overexposed. Did the labs I've sent my film off to fix it for me without me asking them to?

keithwms · May 15, 2008

Well, overexposing print film by a ~half stop is standard for many colour print-film shooters wishing to boost colour saturation. +2 stops is a rather extreme but usually not disastrous. I've rated Fuji 400 at 100 and the results were acceptable.

AutumnJazz · May 15, 2008

Whoops, it wasn't a stop, it was an EV step.

Christopher Walrath · May 16, 2008

thuggins said:
It's not the camera or the film. It's the photographer. No imaging technology can resolve extreme contrast, but B&W film is better than color film.

I must differ here. I don't care what your subject is. If you have an SBR of nine stops you will never get it with reversal film. Saint Ansel would claim to realize this and not use it for such a subject.

thuggins said:
Understand what your meter is registering and adjust your exposure accordingly.

Now this is dead on. If you take a picture of a 9 stop SBR subject on 3 stop reversal film you need to be resigned to the results and remain somewhat hopeful. Not only to understand your meter, but learn the limitations of your gear and the film youa re using and try to plan better for what you might encounter in the future.

Allan Swindles · May 16, 2008

SImple rule, already mentioned I think, Reversal film - expose for the highlights, negative film - expose for the shadows. Better still, with reversal film - measure the incident light.

AutumnJazz · May 16, 2008

Since I have no handheld meter, I suppose I'll just bracket for contrasty scenes.

Christopher Walrath · May 17, 2008

If I were in that situation and had to do something, I guess I would sunny 16 and up the exposure a stop.

Anscojohn · May 17, 2008

I would post examples, but I don't have a scanner.

Edit: I use a Nikon F100, if that helps.[/QUOTE]

*****
Just become aware of your light; and, as mentioned, of the apparent subject contrasts. Bracket? Why--if you are already overexposing the high lights with a reveral film--you are just compounding a problem and wasting film.
Your concern, as stated, is based upon OVER exposure of the highlights. If you insist on accepting the cameras exposure recommendations, just shoot at the camera selected exposure, then go down by half stop increments with your reveral film.
It is awareness of the light that is most important--not the method for measuring it, per se.

KenR · May 17, 2008

Welcome to NYC

This is a problem I've encountered since I started taking "seroious" photos in the 70's. It's not you, it's the contrast. 400 speed films tend to have more latitude then the slower films. I've used 2 bath developers with some success in this situation as well as dilute developers with semi-stand technique (2 shakes every 3 minutes for apx double the normal time). Otherwise you have to wait for the sun to change position or wait for a cloudy day.

dfoo · May 17, 2008

AutumnJazz said:
Since I have no handheld meter, I suppose I'll just bracket for contrasty scenes.

I don't think you need to bracket. You need to instead think about what you want to show. You cannot show the shadows & the highlights at the same time (even if you did manage to get them both on the negative you couldn't print it). If you want to show the dark portion more then meter on the dark portion of the scene and then shoot. If you want to show the bright portion, meter off the bright portion, and then shoot.

Better yet, unless you want the contrast for effect, then wait until there isn't such a high brightness range.

AutumnJazz · May 18, 2008

I do want the contrast for effect. In scenes like what I described, I'll just slightly underexpose.

dynachrome · May 20, 2008

I have started to shoot more color slide film again and this has caused me to be careful not to overexpose. With colorprint film slight overexposure will not cause a problem. With slide film any overexposure will cause a problem. When I use one of my Canon F-1 cameras I am getting selective metering. Only the center 12 degree rectangle is reading any light. I point this rectangle at what looks like a mid tone and then I recompose. If I am using a camera with center weighted or averaging metering I may tilt the camera toward an area with more shade to get a different reading and then recompose. In most cases when an averaging meter is pointed at a very bright scene the result will be underexposure. You might want to have your shutter speeds and meter checked out. A slow shutter can cause you to have overexposed images. You can also shoot a new roll and bracket the exposures. If you keep records of each frame you can see what works and what doesn't.

Issue with Overexposure in VERY Contrasty Scenes

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