Issue with new Hasselblad 201F

[calico]

I bought a second Hasselblad 201F with film back recently.

Something weird happened in my tests, and I can’t figure out what happened.

Besides doing a roll all shot with new body with new back (which turned out fine), I did combinations of new body plus old back and old body with new back to check for light leaks in new items. I know my old body and old back do not have leaks.

I did two rolls where I was switching things around.

In the first of those rolls, I took my old back which had four shots taken on my old camera and put it on the new camera. The first frame (#5) shot on new camera (with old back) was way overexposed. The image was just slightly visible on the right side of the frame, the rest of the frame was basically white. There were also flashes of light on the top and bottom in area around frame on left side. The rest of the frames shot with old back on new body were fine (6 through 12). So it was just the FIRST frame after old back put on new body that was extremely overexposed.

Then for another roll, I shot the first 10 frames with new camera with new back. Then I moved the new back to my old camera. In this case, it was the LAST frame shot on the new camera before new back was moved to old camera that was overexposed. Again, the image barely visible, mostly white. No white in the border this time. The remaining two frames shot with new back on old camera were fine.

The common denominator for the overexposed frames is the new body. In one case, it was the first frame shot on new body after a back attached. In the other case, it was the last frame shot on the new body before back taken off.

Frames where I shot something black with combinations of new back/old camera and old back/new camera were fine. No light leaks. And, as I said, the roll I shot all with new camera/new back (no back changes) was fine.

It’s possible I didn’t wind film to next frame before moving backs. But that shouldn’t matter either, should it? Of course, the dark slide was on backs when they were moved.

I’ll attach a sketch of what happened in case what I described isn’t clear. Also scans of parts of contact sheets with overexposed frames. In first, overexposed frame is frame number 5. In second, overexposed frame is frame number 10.

I’ve been using Hassy’s for years and have never had this problem when moving backs to a different camera. I wonder if there’s something wrong with the new camera, or if I just did something wrong in my rush to do the tests.

Thanks.

 

[itsdoable]

Did you insert the dark slide between exposures when the back was not being removed?

Did you wind the camera both times before removing the back? And the bodies were wound when attaching the backs? (ie: sync'ed - no double exposure?)

The supplied image for frame 5 appears to show what would happen if the dark slide not all the way in when the back was removed, or the dark slide got pulled out a bit after the back was removed.

Frame 10 looks like an uniform over exposure

They appear to be 2 different issues.

The only issues that I could guess that could be blamed on the body is uneven shutter speeds / uneven shutter curtain motion? How is the battery?

 

[calico]

Hello. Thanks so much for your reply.

Did you insert the dark slide between exposures when the back was not being removed?

Did you wind the camera both times before removing the back? And the bodies were wound when attaching the backs? (ie: sync'ed - no double exposure?)

The supplied image for frame 5 appears to show what would happen if the dark slide not all the way in when the back was removed, or the dark slide got pulled out a bit after the back was removed.

Frame 10 looks like an uniform over exposure

They appear to be 2 different issues.

The only issues that I could guess that could be blamed on the body is uneven shutter speeds / uneven shutter curtain motion? How is the battery?

-- No, I did not put dark slide in between exposures. Dark slide only on backs when backs off camera or when I was finished shooting (I put it in then because camera can go off accidentally in my camera bag if I don't have dark slide in).

-- For frame 5: Agree, it does look like dark slide problem because of those light areas around image. The first 4 frames on that roll had been shot months before. The back was stored. Then I put on the new 201F for my tests. One might think that dark slide was not in properly during those months. Possible, but this has never happened before with this back or any back, and since I also had an overexposure on roll with different back, on same day, with the new camera, I feel I have to consider camera issue. (Camera common denominator in overexposures on two rolls.)

-- It's possible I did not wind the film to next frame before moving the back to the camera each time. But if I didn't, I must've wound it after on the camera, because I took notes about exposure for each frame, and I only have notes for 12 frames. If I had shot a frame twice, I would have 13 notes (and I would've wondered what was going on at the time). I was testing the shutter speeds and shot at almost all possible shutter speeds.

-- All the other frames where I was shooting at all the different shutter speeds were fine. Frame 5 (which looks more like a slide problem) was shot at f 5.6 and 1/180. The other overexposed frame, on the other roll, was shot at f 22 and 1/10. So different speeds. All the other speed/aperture combinations had correct exposures.

-- The battery was brand new.

I have a couple days to return the camera if I wish. I'm thinking that as I did not have any problems with a roll where I didn't change back, and because the exposures were correct with all the different shutter speeds on the two rolls described above.....except for those two frames which were at point of changing backs......maybe it is some issue with dark slides. Or I did something wrong during the back changes. I did notice that that slide that came with the new back was a little hard to get in and out. But that would only involve the roll above with frame 10 overexposed, and that's not the overexposed frame which looks like a dark slide problem. It's the roll with my old back/dark slide which looks like it had dark slide problem.

Would you agree okay to keep the camera? Hasselblad/Bron prices for repairs are totally outrageous. Only place that works on 200 series.

But seems, at the very least, I should be okay if don't change backs mid-roll. It's hard to find 201F's, and this one in beautiful cosmetic condition and was good price (from Japan).

Thanks again. I know these posts are long!

 

[itsdoable]

...-- It's possible I did not wind the film to next frame before moving the back to the camera each time. But if I didn't, I must've wound it after on the camera, because I took notes about exposure for each frame, so I know I only shot 12 frames. Film ended with the 12th (both rolls). I would have notes for 13 if I had exposed a frame twice.....

The back will only allow you to expose 12 frames. If you forgot to wind the camera, but the back was advanced, you would get a blank frame (unless you engage the reset button on the body). If you forgot the advance the back, but the camera was wound, you would get a double exposure on that frame, but the back would still only let you expose 12 frames (only the old C12 backs let's you get 13 frames!).

I was just wondering if the over-exposure was due to a double exposure, but you should see a "double exposure" then.

Having not handled or seen your 201f, I cannot advise you about sending it back, that is something you'll have to decide yourself. I would investigate further, and determine what is going wrong, check the shutter for correct operation, rule out user error, etc...

 

[calico]

I wasn't suggesting I exposed 13 frames. I was saying that if I had double-exposed one of the 12 frames, I would have notes for 13 exposures. And, at the time, I would've realized something was wrong, because I know I can only make 12 exposures.

The double exposure idea wouldn't fit with the roll where frame 5 was overexposed, because previous shot was of a cat, so I would see double image. But I thought about possibility of double exposure (after you brought it up) for frame 10 in the other roll where they are all shots of ivy on wall, with camera on tripod. I wouldn't see double image, just overexposure. But I was so careful to note aperture/shutter speed for each shot, and I only have notes for 12 shots (and, like I said, I would've noticed at the time that something was wrong if I had notes for 13 shots).

I will just have to do more experiments. Don't like not knowing what happened. But it seems it has something to do with the dark slides or something I did, so I'm going to keep the camera. The shutter seemed fine in all the other shots. It was just when back was changed that something went awry.

I do love the 201F and am glad I found another one.

Thanks again, appreciate your help.

 

[itsdoable]

Ahh, yes, re-reading it more carefully, you talk about not having 13 notes for your shots.

One thing you can check is taking the same back off and on the body between a few shots. Check the dark slide for light leaks in the film gate.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

Is there a repair service for 200 series Hasselblads in USA? Please, where?

 

[Sirius Glass]

Is there a repair service for 200 series Hasselblads in USA? Please, where?

Hasselblad New Jersey is the only place that will still work on them, I have been told.

 

[calico]

Ahh, yes, re-reading it more carefully, you talk about not having 13 notes for your shots.

One thing you can check is taking the same back off and on the body between a few shots. Check the dark slide for light leaks in the film gate.

Will do. Thanks.

 

[calico]

Hasselblad New Jersey is the only place that will still work on them, I have been told.

Yes, Hasselblad/Bron in NJ will work on 200 series. I have had them work on mine. Very expensive. I have put off having them replace one little light seal inside my 202FA because estimate was $400.

They had to send my 110/2 lens to Sweden the second time the aperture got stuck. The person who worked on it the first time retired when Bron bought Hasselblad and offices moved.

If I didn't love my 110/2 and my 201F so much, I would use 500 series just to avoid having to use Hasselblad/Bron for repairs.

 

[Oren Grad]

Scroll down toward the bottom on this page -

https://hasselbladbron.com/warranty/

- for information on limitations on available service for the 200 series as well as other V-series bodies, lenses and accessories.

 

[calico]

Scroll down toward the bottom on this page -

https://hasselbladbron.com/warranty/

- for information on limitations on available service for the 200 series as well as other V-series bodies, lenses and accessories.

They say there:

200 series
- Camera body; shutters cannot be repaired.
- Rear mirror light seal (upper), part no longer available.

I wonder if they're saying they can't work on the bodies at all, or if that should be a colon instead of semi-colon after "camera body," and they just meant to say shutters cannot be repaired (not other parts of body). They repaired for light leaks in my 201F in January 2019. Maybe the person who did that retired.

I also wonder if the light seal that needs to be replaced in my 202FA is the light seal they mention above. I think it might be. I know it was on top.

Thanks for the link.

 

[Oren Grad]

I wonder if they're saying they can't work on the bodies at all, or if that should be a colon instead of semi-colon after "camera body," and they just meant to say shutters cannot be repaired (not other parts of body).

Good question... The way I read it is that they still do bodies, except for shutter repairs and replacing mirror upper light seals. But that could be wrong. In any case, I think the key take home is that they are starting to run out of 200-series parts, so it's no longer safe to assume that anything that goes wrong can be repaired. A call ahead would be a good idea before sending a body in for repair.

 

[calico]

Good question... The way I read it is that they still do bodies, except for shutter repairs and replacing mirror upper light seals. But that could be wrong. In any case, I think the key take home is that they are starting to run out of 200-series parts, so it's no longer safe to assume that anything that goes wrong can be repaired. A call ahead would be a good idea before sending a body in for repair.

Definitely contact them before sending anything. I have always done this.

Agree, cannot assume parts will be available much longer. Glad I found another 201F. Maybe I should look for a third.

I hate the way digital is taking over.

 

[itsdoable]

They say there:

200 series
- Camera body; shutters cannot be repaired.
- Rear mirror light seal (upper), part no longer available.
....

The electromagnet for the shutter release is not available, so if those go, there are no parts. That was the case for the 2000 series early on.

The mirror light seal is not necessary, mine has been missing for 10+ years. It was a bendy foam piece that all broke in the 1st 10 years of life. Replacement parts broke faster, because the NOS foam was degraded. They did a run with different material (shutter curtain material instead of the foam) but that was near the end of production, and they probably all got used up in service pretty quick. You can make your own seal, replacing the foam with shutter curtain material - the seal has a metal bracket and a plastic plate connected by the foam strip. I made the replacement, but have not installed it yet.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

I sent my 501CM to Hasselblad-Bron for their check to spec inspection. If you do the recommended service, the check fee is waived. I was pleased with their service. Fast turnaround, expensive but not out of line from what I have read from other USA service specialists. it was back in about 2 weeks total.

https://587696.extforms.netsuite.co...d_javascript_redirect=T#:~:text=Check-to-Spec

 

[Light Capture]

I observed similar happen with several 200/2000 series bodies and it was almost always related to battery or battery contacts.
It doesn't happen on every frame.
All cameras I had with defective PCB's had clear persistent error of some kind. It could still be caused by defective PCB, but it's much less likely with 201F compared to 2000 series cameras.

Few cameras have issue that can look similar with wind/release mechanism/pawls directly on the shutter curtain drive.
That can be clearly tested since it happens in C mode as well.

Recently low battery on 205TCC caused at first shutter to hang open for longer than it should.
Even with new battery this is possible if battery doesn't work properly. These bodies don't indicate clearly when battery is causing the issues.
You should be able to reproduce it by dry firing the camera on different speeds and observing the curtains.
Shutter tester would help if you have it. Camera with 120fps video or higher could be used to measure medium speeds as well.

On few cameras issue was solved by cleaning the contact on battery drawer.
Contact cleaner combined with inserting and removing the battery drawer number of times should clean the contact surfaces properly.

Swapping known good battery drawer in would eliminate

Another possible issue is alignment of speed setting ring. Contacts are on side and rarely it happens that contact adjustment is slightly off causing engagement of wrong speed.
This is easy to see on 203/205 since it shows wrong speed on display. On 201F it has to be measured. If this is the issue it will affect certain speeds and still won't happen every time.

All of this and more is checked during CLA.

All this being said if you have option to return it, that might be the best option if you can't see clear cause. Asking for extension on return period might work as well depending on where you got it.

 

[calico]

I observed similar happen with several 200/2000 series bodies and it was almost always related to battery or battery contacts.
It doesn't happen on every frame.
All cameras I had with defective PCB's had clear persistent error of some kind. It could still be caused by defective PCB, but it's much less likely with 201F compared to 2000 series cameras.

Few cameras have issue that can look similar with wind/release mechanism/pawls directly on the shutter curtain drive.
That can be clearly tested since it happens in C mode as well.

Recently low battery on 205TCC caused at first shutter to hang open for longer than it should.
Even with new battery this is possible if battery doesn't work properly. These bodies don't indicate clearly when battery is causing the issues.
You should be able to reproduce it by dry firing the camera on different speeds and observing the curtains.
Shutter tester would help if you have it. Camera with 120fps video or higher could be used to measure medium speeds as well.

On few cameras issue was solved by cleaning the contact on battery drawer.
Contact cleaner combined with inserting and removing the battery drawer number of times should clean the contact surfaces properly.

Swapping known good battery drawer in would eliminate

Another possible issue is alignment of speed setting ring. Contacts are on side and rarely it happens that contact adjustment is slightly off causing engagement of wrong speed.
This is easy to see on 203/205 since it shows wrong speed on display. On 201F it has to be measured. If this is the issue it will affect certain speeds and still won't happen every time.

All of this and more is checked during CLA.

All this being said if you have option to return it, that might be the best option if you can't see clear cause. Asking for extension on return period might work as well depending on where you got it.

Hi Light Capture. Thanks so much for these additional possibilities.

I can do some of the things you suggest, such as switching battery drawer with the one in my other 201F. I will also put in a different new battery, in case the one I put in had drained while in package.

I will say, though, that I shot three rolls with the new camera -- where I did not change the back during the shooting of the rolls -- and there were no problems at all. No overexposed frames or any other problem. Also, all my exposure tests (shooting at almost all possible shutter speeds) turned out fine -- exposures were correct.

The two overexposed frames in the two rolls mentioned above were at point of changing film back. One of the overexposed frames was FIRST shot after an old back (with photos taken on my other 201F) was put on new camera. The other was LAST shot taken on new camera before I moved the new back to old camera. So, unless there is some weird coincidence happening, it seems the problem is related to back changes.

However, the first shot overexposure would fit with the battery issue you mentioned.....

I'm going to just keep the camera because they are so hard to find. Maybe I will be okay if I don't change backs mid-roll. Meanwhile, I will continue to try to figure out what happened and do things you suggest to test.

Thank you so much for your help.

 

[calico]

The electromagnet for the shutter release is not available, so if those go, there are no parts. That was the case for the 2000 series early on.

The mirror light seal is not necessary, mine has been missing for 10+ years. It was a bendy foam piece that all broke in the 1st 10 years of life. Replacement parts broke faster, because the NOS foam was degraded. They did a run with different material (shutter curtain material instead of the foam) but that was near the end of production, and they probably all got used up in service pretty quick. You can make your own seal, replacing the foam with shutter curtain material - the seal has a metal bracket and a plastic plate connected by the foam strip. I made the replacement, but have not installed it yet.

Hi Itsdoable. Attached is photo of the light seal that fell off inside my 202FA. I took this photo to send to Hasselblad/Bron for estimate.

Is this the mirror light seal? As you see, mine has a foam part along one edge. Then below the foam, it looks like the non-reflective material that is inside the camera. The other side is shiny. (I had saved the seal and dug it out this morning.)

When I look inside the 202FA, it looks like the foam part may have broken off at the top/back side of camera box.

If it is the part you're talking about......I don't need to have it replaced? That would be very good news. I haven't used the camera since it fell off, so I wouldn't know if leaks.

Just for laughs, also below is a photo of the seal falling. Fell off during a portrait session. I didn't realize it had happened until I saw the contacts. The photos after this one have a jagged black area at top of photos (the seal resting on bottom of camera box). I actually kind of liked the effect, looked like doom descending on this poor girl.

Thanks for your help!

 

[BrianShaw]

Oh, what a shame... a potentially good photograph of a felt strip totally ruined by a cute kid photobombing you.

 

[calico]

Oh, what a shame... a potentially good photograph of a felt strip totally ruined by a cute kid photobombing you.

Haha!

 

[itsdoable]

Hi Itsdoable. Attached is photo of the light seal that fell off inside my 202FA...

I recognize those photos from the other forum. We both have different user names there.


Here is the post where I replaced my mirror light seal the 1st time, before the replacement failed.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/hasselblad-heartbreak.128814/page-2#post-1700820

The pictures should still be viewable. The metal part (that got left inside the camera body) has doublesided adhesive, and attaches just above the shutter. You can pry it off, and refurbish the entire seal unit, and reattach.

 

[calico]

I recognize those photos from the other forum. We both have different user names there.


Here is the post where I replaced my mirror light seal the 1st time, before the replacement failed.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/hasselblad-heartbreak.128814/page-2#post-1700820

The pictures should still be viewable. The metal part (that got left inside the camera body) has doublesided adhesive, and attaches just above the shutter. You can pry it off, and refurbish the entire seal unit, and reattach.

Wow, that was five years ago. You have a good memory

I actually was going to try to post about my just-bought 201F there, but the forums were down whenever I checked. Reason I came here. Do the forums ever work there these days?

Thanks for link to your photos of your seal. Does look like same piece that I had problem with, but the metal part is still in my camera.

I will test the camera as it is. If no light leak, I won't bother doing anything.

And I presume this is the "rear mirror light seal (upper)" which Hasselblad/Bron says on their site they don't have anymore.

Thanks very much.

 

[mitrajoon]

I had a problem with my 203F and took it to Hasselblad NJ. The tech quickly identified the problem as the light seal everyone has mentioned. At a cost of $400, his advice was don't replace it, just make sure you don't leave the dark slide out for any length of time. Haven't had a problem since.

 

[calico]

I had a problem with my 203F and took it to Hasselblad NJ. The tech quickly identified the problem as the light seal everyone has mentioned. At a cost of $400, his advice was don't replace it, just make sure you don't leave the dark slide out for any length of time. Haven't had a problem since.

That is really good to hear.

Now I wonder why the person who gave me the estimate for replacing it didn't tell me the same thing. Probably if I had been dealing with a technician directly, as you did, I would have been given this info. But I was dealing with woman who orchestrates things (takes orders, gives estimates). Another strike against them in my book. Sigh.

Thank you so much for sharing your experience.