Isn't Sepia toner supposed to stink?

[Ricus.stormfire]

Hi all

I have pondered this ever since I started using Rollei's Sepia Toner (RST). The only other sepia toner I have used before was Kodak's Sepia toner, and that honked like rotten eggs.

Now why does the Rollei not stink, not even a bit. Odorless Sodium Sulfide Toner? or is there something I am missing here. I must admit, I am happy not to have the normal stink (esp. now with an easy-to-nauseate, pregnant wife) associated with Sepia toning.

For those that might ask, this is not a direct toner as it has a bleach stage.

Thanks in advance

 

[trotkiller]

Thiourea/Thiocarbamide based sepia toners are odor-free, but I thought the Rollei was a smelly, Sodium Sulfide based toner.

 

[Ricus.stormfire]

Thiourea/Thiocarbamide based sepia toners are odor-free, but I thought the Rollei was a smelly, Sodium Sulfide based toner.

that's what I thought too....could it be that RST is Thiourea based and not Sodium Sulfide based? I wonder?

 

[trotkiller]

Thiourea based toners are 3 part toners. Part A is the standard bleach. Part B and C are Thiourea and the activator. You mix B+C before you use it as the mixed toner solution doesn't keep.

 

[Ricus.stormfire]

Mystery solved

Ok after a rather fruitless attempt to Google my question, I Googled "Rollei Sepia Toner" and low and behold I got a link to this: http://www.mahn.net/SIDown.htm , there under Laborpartner's chems (Formulation is same as Rollei's for some chemicals) I found the "ingredients" for Part B, one quick Google translate later, and TADA, I see it contains Thiocarbamide!

So Rollei Sepia Toner IS not Sodium Sulfide based but an odorless Thiocarbamide toner.

 

[Ricus.stormfire]

OK, seems this is not solved yet....3 part toner hmmm? RST only has a part A & part B. The plot thickens...

 

[kevs]

OK, seems this is not solved yet....3 part toner hmmm? RST only has a part A & part B. The plot thickens...

Most of the thiocarbamide toners I've used are two-part ones; the three part ones are supposed to adjust the colour when you mix sodium hydroxide with the thiocarb to adjust the pH. See Ilford's page at http://www.ilfordphoto.com/aboutus/page.asp?n=130

Thiocarbamide / thiourea is probably carcinogenic, so try not to inhale it too deeply!

Cheers,
kevs.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

It's been a VERY long time but... I seem to remember that some folks don't smell the rotten-egg odor of sepia toner.

 

[pentaxuser]

I suspect there is a major prize that may be never won for the inventor of the first Sulphide toner that doesn't smell. I think the point is that inventing a smell free sulphide toner is probably the chemical equivalent of Scottie's comment in Startrek about not being able to change the law of physics

pentaxuser

 

[Mainecoonmaniac]

The good part is that if you rip one in the darkroom ,you can blame the toner.

 

[Ricus.stormfire]

Thank you all for the comments.

I never knew that there are non-variable Thiocarbamide toners, So I think it is correct to say that Rollei Sepia Toner is one of those. Pity, really, I wouldn't mind a variable version though, but in South Africa the pickings can be very slim for film/darkroom chemistry.

I have to wonder though which is better -archival quality wise- Normal smelly Sodium Sulphide or Thiocarbamide toners. As far as I understand, both, convert the image to silver sulphide, so there should be no difference then, right?

 

[kevs]

Thank you all for the comments.

I never knew that there are non-variable Thiocarbamide toners, So I think it is correct to say that Rollei Sepia Toner is one of those. Pity, really, I wouldn't mind a variable version though, but in South Africa the pickings can be very slim for film/darkroom chemistry.

I have to wonder though which is better -archival quality wise- Normal smelly Sodium Sulphide or Thiocarbamide toners. As far as I understand, both, convert the image to silver sulphide, so there should be no difference then, right?

You're right - where archival qualities are concerned they're the same, they both convert silver to silver sulphide; aesthetically, they're totally different.

Cheers,
kevs

 

[pentaxuser]

aesthetically, they're totally different.

Cheers,
kevs

Could you amplify this Kev? Are you for instance saying that the "look" of a suphide toned print cannot be replicated with thiocarbimide and if so what is it that distinguishes a sulphide toned print from a thiocarbimide?

I haven't tried either so this is a genuine inquiry to gather info and not a covert challenge to you statement

Thanks


pentaxuser

 

[kevs]

Could you amplify this Kev? Are you for instance saying that the "look" of a suphide toned print cannot be replicated with thiocarbimide and if so what is it that distinguishes a sulphide toned print from a thiocarbimide?

I haven't tried either so this is a genuine inquiry to gather info and not a covert challenge to you statement

Thanks


pentaxuser

No worries Pentaxuser; I've found that they tone differently; thiocarbamide seems to affect all the tones in a print, where sulphide seems to act more proportionally between light and dark tones. I also find that sulphide gives a less pronounced tone than thiocarbamide, though the result obviously depends upon the paper type and the amount of time spent in the bleach.

This doesn't really surprise me though; sodium sulphide and thiocarbamide are totally different chemicals and I don't think we should expect them to act the same way. I must admit a preference for Tetenal Sulphide; although I'm not sure why, I've never really liked the results I've had from thiocarbamide toners. YMMV.

Cheers,
kevs.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I used the Kodak sepia toner for years , until they changed it . Now I am using scratch mix with sodium sulphide as the second bath. I like the flexibility dilution and time can give me with different papers.

I am such a miserable bastard that when I am in a bad mood and I want to piss off the people around me I just mix a monster tray of toner , and do not turn on the ventilation system. This smelly mix is just what the doctor ordered to cheer me up on those special days.

 

[John Shriver]

The level of stink with the Kodak Sepia Toner depended on whether you washed your print properly. A little fix left on the print, and you can be chased out of the house by toxic levels of hydrogen sulfide. (I know all too well.)