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Is using the camera in manual that difficult.

slackercrurster said:
Manual is used where auto does not work well. Manual is used where you want the exposure to stay the same and not goof up. In my case I shoot manual about 90% of the time. For P&S it is auto for me.
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Interesting. Why don't my Graphics and Cambos have auto anything?
 
My only auto cameras are Contax T3 and digital Olympus Pen, the latter not used very much.
 
its as easy or ad difficult as one wants to make it.
like anything in life.
 
Given the ultra short attention span and intolerance for anything that requires mild cognitive exercise or patience in the social media age, yes.it's definitely too time-consuming and too difficult for most.

MFL
 
To me, the three important components of a good photograph are:
1) shot selection
2) composition
3) framing

This is where beginners should start, and automatic cameras facilitate this.

As a photographer progresses in the hobby/craft and realizes the shortcomings of automatic processes, it is fairly easy to learn to technical components.

My personal history is learning with an instamatic with fixed focus, 1/125s, and f8. I later progressed to aperture priority. After a break from still photography during school, a advanced to full-auto digital, but became frustrated when the camera logic didn't give me the results I wanted. I was able to partially get around this by using aperture priority, exposure lock and focus lock (which required great dexterity), and this is what led me back to analog photography and manual cameras.

I still shoot some digital, usually in Aperture Priority mode, when it is the right tool for the job, but get more enjoyment from manual cameras.

Expecting beginners to work through the technical aspects of exposure, boot camp style, is not necessary.

On the other hand, manual exposure isn't that difficult. When I look back on some of my Instamatic Kodachromes, I really wish I had had control over exposure.
 
Following the light meter is the method of "manual control" that most people encourage to new users. I know, im one of them.

Canon FTB, good camera. Fully serviced and up dated. Using camera light meter I can line up and take ok shots all the time. sometimes a really nice one. The issue I have is, I don't always know exactly what spot the camera is metering off of, and sometimes I get focused on composition and don't notice that the meter spot is no longer on the same spot it was when I balanced the needles out and is now half an inch away on the match needle meter.

I had a Canon Elan IIe for a few weeks before the shutter died and a control knob broke off. Using its programmed mode, it took some rather decent pictures in terms of how aperture and shutter speed went together. It had a little meter needle that showed exposure value. THAT was the best feature as it didn't agree with what my FTB would have me balance the aperture and shutter speed out settings wise at that moment in time.
 

The Canon FTb was my first SLR [1971]. While I don't have that particular camera any more, I got a replacement a few years back, and sent it to Garry for a CLA.

The rectangle you see in the center of the viewfinder is the area being metered. The meter is insensitive over the rest of the screen. Once you set shutter and aperture, your exposure setting is for THAT composition, and should be good as long as what you're viewing is in the same light.

That the meter in youe Elan IIe didn't agree with your FTb's readings is an issue to be addressed in a side-by-side comparison u der controlled conditions. You should make sure that its shutter failure wasn't just the result of a run-down battery.

Regards,
Vince
 
OH it was a defect in the shutter mechanism itself. It wasn't able to go above a shutter speed of 1/750. it could, but youd press the button and it would take up to 50 minutes for the shutter to reset itself. Turning the camera off, and running through the command dial could get the reset time down to 3minutes.
 
The camera must be made for manipulating it, lenses, too. I have mainly to do with movie cameras. Most of them are, say, okay to handle, if not equal, and some are more equal. In my eyes focusing is the most critical affair of photography and cinematography, so a stigmomètre would be most valuable. The stigmomètre is the invention of Lucien Dodin, 1943, a couple of invertedly arranged slant prisms, the split screen. Exposure somewhat off you can do something about later, object out of focus—never.

Astonishingly movie cameras don’t have prism screens. They have a ground glass or a focusing prism with a ground surface. You can see them through from big to small, Panaflex-Arriflex-Aaton-Eclair-Mitchell-Bell & Howell-Konvas. The first Canon Scoopic had a prism screen, better Super-8 cameras have one. Filmo 70-DA and later models have a 15 times magnifying GG critical focuser. Eyemo have a GG focuser just like the Standard camera had. Paillard-Bolex H have a ground prism focusing system. Beaulieu Reflex a ground planoconvex lens. Pathé WEBO M have a planoconvex lens with a central ground area on the convex side. Ciné-Kodak Special GG, hardly magnified. Kodak Reflex Special GG with 10 and 20 times magnification. Soviet cameras have GG focusing as well, some very finely etched (technology transfer from the USA) and well magnified. The Arriflex 16 ST has a thin GG. Older models have thorium oxide glasses in the finder that turn brown and cut heavily on brightness. The Pentaflex 8 has an aerial image, the manual advises to set focus by the distance scale of the lens!

Lenses should be well maintained so that focusing goes easily, lightly. I may not be as fast as an AF system but I see what I’m setting the focus on and I can discern between fences and foilage and things. AF systems are often fooled.
 
learning how to use manual camera can really get in the way of learning ow to photograph;technoids love mania cameras but. they rarely know how to make good photographs; technically perfect ?yes, but nothing eye-catching to write home about(present company excluded of course)
 
I try to avoid use of "they" when discussing matters like these because that points to undeserved notion of personal superiority.

Currently I'm mostly using a 30mp Samsung NX500 with manual focus Pentax primes and using the cameras large, exquisite screen to accurately visually focus and expose...no meter, no autofocus ( manual Pentax primes, don't allow). Prior to my small, orphaned NX500 my all time favorites were a pair of Leica 2F followed by a pair of Canon F1.
 
Like all things manual, if you learn it then you can always use the auto.
For example:
  • drive a car, with a manual gearbox and choke.
  • make a basic white sauce.
  • add your own here.
 
My first "real" camera was a Retina I with the f3.5 Ektar, Compur shutter,no flash sync, no exposure meter OR rangefinder. I bought it second hand, I must add! (I'm hardly old enough to have bought it new!) It still works fine. The Retina I is a truly manual camera! With a selenium cell meter and a LOT of experience I got some fine shots. I feel that sort of camera, although I'd allow a rangefinder or TTL viewing, is an ideal way to learn photography. One learns to judge the light with the meter as confirmation. While I shoot a lot with my Pentax K-5 DSLR I still enjoy using my Pentax LX, especially for night shooting or fireworks, and my Minolta Autocord or Vitessa L with the f2 Ultron. Both the Autocord and the Vitessa furnish a "manual" experience, and really fine ergonomics and optics.
While the Pentax K 1000 SLR is a good beginner's camera and is often recommended as such, its popularity has driven prices out of all reason. I bought a Pentax KX SLR with the truly excellent f1.4 lens both in EX + condition for under $120. The KX is in the same family as the K1000 but is a far more capable camera! Center weighted metering, DOF preview, shutter and f stop visible in the VF, and mirror lock-up, all features the K1000 lacks. Yet the K1000 is commonly offered for $150 or more with the adequate f2 lens.
 
foc said:
Like all things manual, if you learn it then you can always use the auto.
For example:
  • drive a car, with a manual gearbox and choke.
  • make a basic white sauce.
  • add your own here.
Click to expand...
Make a decent roux.
Use a cross cut or rip hand saw, cutting to the line
 
Your daughter has a lot in common with my eldest son who is a physicist and although he has a driving licence won't buy a car and goes everywhere on a bike says "if you would have told people 150 years ago that we all would in the future be whizzing about in steel boxes at 70mph they would have thought you were crazy".
 
I always recommend beginners start off with a full auto camera. The reason is because the hardest part of photography isn't exposure or focusing. It's creating a compelling image. Many professional photographers forget this and get too involved with the technical side of things, trying to obtain the perfect exposure and sharpest focus, while not realizing that their photos are banal and academic, because all they focus on is the technical nature of it.

I think this is what killed professional photography. The average person seems to think that a professional photographer is just someone with expensive camera gear. And you can't blame them. The overwhelming majority of wedding photos, portrait studio photography, fashion photos, product photos, and landscapes that I have come across in daily life look like a "paint by the numbers" approach. They were made with the notion of not taking risks. They were made to look like what has already succeeded. They weren't made to stand out and grab you. They don't break through the noise. They ARE the noise. So the ability of an amateur to take a professional looking photo is as easy as buying an expensive camera system, and spending an afternoon on the internet studying a few blogs on how to shoot whatever. In 48 hours, a studious amateur can compete with the majority of professionals out there.

So even learning manual mode only takes a few hours to get the gist. And you can become a master in about a year (especially with digital since you get instant feedback). But learning how to actually take a great photo... well that can take a lifetime or more.
 
It can be difficult depending upon the approach to learning the basics of the subject, or it can be easy.

F-stops are a bit "counter-intuitive" which does little to help people who have limited experience in learning by acceptance, if however a person can take the time to read a book like "Understanding Exposure" by Brian Peterson then a great deal of the knowledge required to make manual photography a normal tool becomes so much easier to put into practice.
 
Auto means the CAMERA sets itself, while it factors almost NONE of the considerations behind selection of f/stop, selection of shutter speed, selection of ISO (for digital cameras)...it merely tries to accomplish 'proper exposure'.

Manual means that the USER sets all adjustments while considering one or more of the considerations behind selection of f/stop, selection of shutter speed, selection of ISO (for digital cameras)...while also trying to accomplish 'proper exposure'.

The MORE you UNDERSTAND about considerations behind selection of f/stop, selection of shutter speed, selection of ISO (for digital cameras) means that you have better control over the outcome of the photo. In the beginning, you might understand only part of one (e..g. why you choose a small vs. larger aperture) and over time you might come to understand it fully, then later more attributes of the same control. You can use a camera in Manual and understand nothing, but merely mimic what the camera wants to do in Auto, with little control over the outcome of the photo.. You can later use a camera in Manual and eventually understand all there is for creative control over the outcome.
 
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Auto makes it easy. Easy means lots of photos. Lots of photos means less thinking. I'm hard pressed to recommend against thinking.
 
"Auto makes it easy. Easy means lots of photos. Lots of photos means less thinking. I'm hard pressed to recommend against thinking."

I learned years ago as a cycling coach not to use highly experience racers as coaches or even ride leaders; they are too far away from the early days of learning. They cannot see the myriad assumptions, streamlined thinking, stress management, and the deeply ingrained behaviors they use on a daily basis and how different that is from getting started. Auto facilitates a fundamental learning process. Plenty of thinking is going on.

On day 1 in my Intro to Digital class we put all the cameras on Auto. Familiarity with the camera comes first, then focus; it doesn't matter what they shoot. Next day is Aperture with Aperture Priority, next Shutter Speed with Shutter Speed Priority. We shoot brackets which allows for an isolation of the effect of f & SS with no other concerns. Then comes ISO and with that the exposure triangle. Next; metering, again with brackets. And in week 5, full manual exposure with gray cards & targets and learning what kinds of things can be used as neutral mid-tones. After that, color with presets, auto and then, depending upon how advanced the class appears, custom color.

Auto makes many things possible, especially in a learning environment, but it gets left behind. Learning about these 4 factors (focus, aperture, SS and ISO) with camera & metering and how they interact, goes on forever. Auto facilitates the learning process. Plenty of thinking is going on.
 


Chan
i no longer 'rely' on automatic.. they don't seem to have that function on large format cameras. I use a spot meter and read a 'scrap' of clean white towelling using my pentax spot meter, and 'place that value on "Zone Vlll+1/3 of a 'stop' to get a "white with 'texture' as I was informed" for Kodachrome (as indicated by Dr Martin Scott of Kodak fame and notoriety. I was recently 'challenged' on that 'means' did a simple 'test' and found it very close (usually well within 1/3 of an f-stop to an incident meter reading').

Try it for yourself.. you might be somewhat 'surprised' at the accuracy of your results.

Ken
 
I have often pondered why the average adult human believes a fully manual camera is difficult, even beyond their means, when I learned to use on aged five. I used to think along the lines..."how difficult can it be if a ham-fisted child of five can do it?".

I was taught, aged five, by my father to use his Zeiss-Ikon 520/16 6x6 folder. Probably not the easiest camera in the world given that it has absolutely no focus assistance or light meter and shallow depth of field at most apertures. I was taught to make a best guess at the focus and the sunny 16 rule. Maybe it helped that I was so young, my brain learned to think in f-stops and fractions of seconds.

So these days I accept that I was fortunate to learn early on. I also am blessed with what seems to be an innate ability to figure out all things with buttons and knobs. At school when they got their first VCR in the early 80s, it was 9 year old me who told the teachers how to use it despite not having one at home. It just seemed logical how to wire the thing up, tune in the stations and the transport controls were like a cassette recorder with which I'd been familiar since I was four. I also don't understand what is so difficult about manually threading a cine projector or a reel to reel tape deck. I have no concept of why other people find these tasks difficult.

BUT....there are simple, everyday tasks that I cannot do such as tie my shoes. I can't figure out shoe laces to save my life. They appear to be tied but come undone after a few steps. So in the end I come to the conclusion that we're all born with different skills and we pick up different skills and knowledge along the way. Most people are daunted by all the new knobs, dials, numbers and words they need to understand. The history of amateur photography is lined with attempts to make it easier from film instead of plates, easier loading film, fixed focus, auto focus..eventually all singing auto focus, auto exposure cameras where 95% of the time the photo comes out really well even if you know nothing other than looking through the window and pressing the button.
 
Michael Firstlight said:
Given the ultra short attention span and intolerance for anything that requires mild cognitive exercise or patience in the social media age, yes.it's definitely too time-consuming and too difficult for most.

MFL
Click to expand...

Recently I shot a pleasing night time shot on my phone. A friend asked how to achieve a similar "look" and I said "pro mode. Whack the ISO up to 800, select a suitable but slow shutter speed and manually adjust the white balance until the street lights come out correctly".....I'd lost her at "pro mode".
 
I learned technicalities of exposure for all kind of photography only after getting DSLR and switching it to full manual mode. I took tens of thousands exposures with it.
Reading books and using of semi manual, automatic modes was not helping me at all.
Same did my daughter once she started to experiment with paid photography. She switched to manual and after trials and errors came to her style.
 
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