Is this use of Photoflow problematic?

Rafal Lukawiecki · Dec 4, 2012

Thomas Bertilsson said:
I don't know the answers to your questions, I'm afraid. If your method works, then nothing's broken that needs fixing.

Thank you, Thomas, either way. I'll be on the lookout, I appreciate you sharing your experience.

sepiareverb · Dec 4, 2012

Photo Flo seems like the problem child of wetting agents. I've used Photo Flo, Sprint End Run, Sistan and LFN and have only ever had trouble with Photo Flo...

Rafal Lukawiecki · Dec 4, 2012

Sepiareverb, what was the nature of the issues you had with PhotoFlo that others didn't cause? By the way, I thought Sistan was not a wetting agent, but an anti-silvering protective solution ((there was a url link here which no longer exists) I think), but I have no experience of it. Got a bottle, though...

PS. MSDS lists Potassium thiocyanate as 15-20% and Polyoxyethylated Octyl Phenol as 5-10%.

Sirius Glass · Dec 4, 2012

And I have never had a problem with PhotoFlo but then I only have 50 years of experience with it.

Nige · Dec 4, 2012

Rafal Lukawiecki said:
Nige, what a simple, and an elegant idea. I just hope the seal never bursts when the bottle is upside-down.

haha.. I hope not too! been doing this for 35ish years (a couple of bottles)

Also, as far as using it in the tank, I've always done that (Paterson System 4). I just rinse the reels and tank afterwards. Still use my original reels on occasion and don't have any particular problem with them (i.e. if it's really humid, new or old reels can cause problems)

winger · Dec 4, 2012

I just put a few drops in the tank after the wash. Once the film is hung, I do wash the reel and tank well and wipe with a clean towel then rinse with very hot water again. I've never had problems with foaming (not to say I never will, I suppose).

Sirius Glass · Dec 5, 2012

When I use the Jobo tanks and drums, I remove the film, place it in a container of water with PhotoFlo. PhotoFlo should not be used with the Jobo 3010 Expert Drum because it messes up the drum membranes and cannot be removed without damaging the membranes.

luizjorgemn · Dec 5, 2012

I had issues using wetting agent (a comercial brand from Brazil) and D96 replenished for eastman double-x. After using the solution 10 times and properly replenishing it (it should last for 20-25 times), I started to see some kind of "slime" at the glass bottle, and it started to foam when agitated. Don't know if I forgot to wash the tank between sessions, but I had to dump it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

GarageBoy · Dec 6, 2012

Is it possible to transfer the film into a dedicated tank for the sole purpose of Photoflo (without a reel)

MattKing · Dec 6, 2012

GarageBoy said:
Is it possible to transfer the film into a dedicated tank for the sole purpose of Photoflo (without a reel)

Yes, but you don't need a tank. A ~1 litre plastic container of any sort that lacks ridges or crevasses works just as well - think re-purposed kitchen measuring graduate, yogurt container, sour cream container, et al - just mark it for darkroom use only.

Alex Muir · Dec 6, 2012

Yes. I now use a large plastic tub and remove film from the reel before putting it into the photoflo solution. I originally used Ilfotol in the Paterson tank with no problems. I bought Photoflo last year when I couldn't get Ilfotol. I've had foaming problems ever since, despite thoroughly cleaning everything after each session (I have always done that). I now use the separate tub, but my tanks still foam! I wonder if the Photoflo formula changed at some point in the recent past? Alex.

Vaughn · Dec 6, 2012

Photo-flo 200 and Photo-flo 600 are two different beasties, if you have been changing around any.

polyglot · Dec 7, 2012

Alex Muir said:
Yes. I now use a large plastic tub and remove film from the reel before putting it into the photoflo solution. I originally used Ilfotol in the Paterson tank with no problems. I bought Photoflo last year when I couldn't get Ilfotol. I've had foaming problems ever since, despite thoroughly cleaning everything after each session (I have always done that). I now use the separate tub, but my tanks still foam! I wonder if the Photoflo formula changed at some point in the recent past? Alex.

Pulling the film off the reel before photoflo'ing it will often cause fine scratches where the corners of the film rub against the emulsion. Leave it on the reel for protection while it's in photoflo; a quick rinse under the hot tap will completely clean the reel once the film is hung up.

Rafal Lukawiecki · Dec 7, 2012

Out of curiosity, if PhotoFlo is causing all of those issues, why are people using it, and not something benign like Ilfotol or LFN? Or do those cause the same problems? I've had none yet...

Alex Muir · Dec 7, 2012

I only used Photoflo because my stockist was out of the other stuff. I didn't expect it to be any different, or I would not have used it. I will be returning to Ilfotol, especially after reading this thread. I could use it in the tank without any problem. Although I wash everything after use, I avoid hot water as I understood this could distort Paterson plastic reels. Alex.

polyglot · Dec 7, 2012

You can use Photoflo in the tank without any problem too.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 7, 2012

polyglot said:
You can use Photoflo in the tank without any problem too.

Can you categorically claim this to be true?

fotch · Dec 7, 2012

polyglot said:
Pulling the film off the reel before photoflo'ing it will often cause fine scratches where the corners of the film rub against the emulsion. Leave it on the reel for protection while it's in photoflo; a quick rinse under the hot tap will completely clean the reel once the film is hung up.

Well then you have a problem. You eventually have to remove the film from the reel to use it. Just be careful, never had a problem.

polyglot · Dec 7, 2012

Thomas Bertilsson said:
Can you categorically claim this to be true?

I've done it, er, 370 times now to no ill effect. My spirals are completely clean, they load perfectly and do not contaminate the developer. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

fotch said:
Well then you have a problem. You eventually have to remove the film from the reel to use it. Just be careful, never had a problem.

Well obviously, it comes out either to be hung up to dry or to be sleeved (if you dried it the reel, which I don't). The problem comes if you unspool it (say, a 120 roll) into an icecream container and slosh it a bit in the photoflo. The film will rub on the container a little, and the corners of the film will rub on a neighbouring bit of film, causing tiny hairline scratches - you have to really look hard for them.

fotch · Dec 7, 2012

I remove from the reel and seesaw the film in a bowl or tray of Photo-flow. It is the same technique that Kodak shows in old books before tanks were available or popular and film was ortho so they used under a red safelight.

Never had any problems with damage to film. Very easy and fast.

Thomas Bertilsson · Dec 7, 2012

polyglot said:
I've done it, er, 370 times now to no ill effect. My spirals are completely clean, they load perfectly and do not contaminate the developer. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

I do. When I used Photoflo 200 in the tank, next film developing session I would get these bubbles caught by the film reel, preventing the developer from getting to the film surface, rendering those spots basically undeveloped. It's just at the edge of the 120 film frames, but still irritating as it does affect a portion of the image area.
I did not use excessive amounts of wetting agent, and I do give the dev tank a good couple of whacks on a folded up towel on the counter top to attempt dislodging any such bubbles, and still had this occur. Once I stopped using Photoflo in the tank the problem persisted for a while until I bought a new tank and new reels, and the problem went away.

jeffreyg · Dec 7, 2012

I have been seesawing rolls of film through Photoflo in distilled water in a Tupperware container with no problems for forty years. I only use the mixture for one session and then discard it, thoroughly rinse and dry the container. Since I just use a few drops of Photoflo each time it is the least costly of all the materials involved.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

Sirius Glass · Dec 7, 2012

Rafal Lukawiecki said:
Out of curiosity, if PhotoFlo is causing all of those issues, why are people using it, and not something benign like Ilfotol or LFN? Or do those cause the same problems? I've had none yet...

I have had none of those issues with any of the products you mentioned.

Sirius Glass · Dec 7, 2012

polyglot said:
You can use Photoflo in the tank without any problem too.

The problem using PhotoFlo in a Jobo Expert Tank has been validated by Jobo and Jobo makes that recommendation for those tanks and those tanks alone.

Gerald C Koch · Dec 7, 2012

Sirius Glass said:
I have had none of those issues with any of the products you mentioned.

None for me either. But I use only 2 or 3 drops of Photo-Flo for 250 ml of water. Just enough to reduce the surface tension of the water. Photo-Flo uses an anti-foaming agent that contains a tallowate component which can leave a greasy residue. A periodic soaking overnight in a 2% solution of sodium carbonate helps clean any reels.

Is this use of Photoflow problematic?

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency