Is this legitimate? Baby Bessa Heliar

[Dan Daniel]

Anyone know if Voigtlander ever put a Heliar on the Baby Bessa 6x4 camera? I ran across this on Ebay. I've been looking at Baby Bessas for years, using them now and then, and have never seen this lens before. And looking at the three screws holding the dress plate with lens name on the front, well, seems somewhat cruder than Voigtlander? Then again, maybe it is legitimate.

The auction- https://www.ebay.com/itm/264391495934?ul_noapp=true

 

[Peltigera]

Well, that lens is certainly for a 6x4 camera. I don't see why it should not be from a Baby Bessa.

 

[JPD]

It looks like a previous owner has mounted an extra ring on top of the focus ring, maybe so he could use screw-in filters or push-on filters of another size. The shutter is nickel-plated and looks like it came from an older camera. I get a "franken-feeling" about this.

 

[macfred]

Specifications for Voigtländer Bessa 46 with Heliar 75mm from collections-appareils.fr
https://www.collection-appareils.fr/x/html/affich_FT_eng.php?id_appareil=21126

 

[macfred]

From the lomography.de site : Baby Bessa 46 with -supposed as 'uncoated'- Heliar https://www.lomography.de/cameras/3349117-voigtlander-bessa-46-with-heliar-1950-s/photos

 

[Dan Daniel]

Ah, great. Thanks for the info. I've been watching Baby Bessas for years and never seen a Heliar before.

It's not worth $350 to me, but I guess if someone needed every version made, here's their chance!

 

[choiliefan]

I've looked at quite a few of these cameras over the years as well.
The outer ring doesn't appear original to me either. Many of these old Voigtlanders had a flip-up "moment" yellow filter attached to the front bezel of the lens. Oftentimes, this hinged filter is broken off and MIA.
The surround with printed Heliar and focal length, etc is glued on and often missing as well.
There's no reason the camera should have two Heliar lens surrounds unless the outer one is an adaptation.
For what it's worth, I've bought a few thing from the seller Fotohobby and have always been happy with their descriptions.

 

[Dan Daniel]

Agreed on the look of the outer threaded ring. Metal color is off, as someone mentioned. The three silver screws overhang the inner edge of top ring slightly- not typical Voigtlander quality for this era. And having lens info twice is not right.

I'm going to assume that the base camera with Heliar is legitimate, with a filter threading added later by someone who had an extra Heliar engraved ring for some reason?

 

[RauschenOderKorn]

Specifications for Voigtländer Bessa 46 with Heliar 75mm from collections-appareils.fr
https://www.collection-appareils.fr/x/html/affich_FT_eng.php?id_appareil=21126

These specs state 1/300 as slowest speed, the shutter on the camera is 1/500

 

[JPD]

These specs state 1/300 as slowest speed, the shutter on the camera is 1/500

They were sold in different variations. Voigtar, Skopar and Heliar, Compur and Compur-Rapid. The one with Heliar and Compur-Rapid was the most expensive one.

 

[macfred]

These specs state 1/300 as slowest speed, the shutter on the camera is 1/500

Should be fastest speed ...
You're right with the camera from the ebay offer but 1/300 wasn't unusual for the Compur shutter. Kameramuseum Kurt Tauber listed a Baby Bessa 66 with Compur shutter 1/300 (here with the low-budget Voigtar lens) :
http://www.kameramuseum.de/0-fotokameras/voigtlaender/rollfilm/mini-bessa-66.html

I can remember a -late- Baby Bessa 66 with Compur shutter 1/400sec also.

 

[macfred]

These specs state 1/300 as slowest speed, the shutter on the camera is 1/500

You're right with the camera from the ebay offer but 1/300 wasn't unusual for the Compur shutter. Kameramuseum Kurt Tauber listed a Baby Bessa 66 with Compur shutter 1/300 (here with the low-budget Voigtar lens) :
http://www.kameramuseum.de/0-fotokameras/voigtlaender/rollfilm/mini-bessa-66.html

I can remember a -late- Baby Bessa 66 with Compur shutter 1/400sec also.

 

[macfred]

They were sold in different variations. Voigtar, Skopar and Heliar, Compur and Compur-Rapid. The one with Heliar and Compur-Rapid was the most expensive one.

Yep, there are numerous variants of the Baby Bessa range ...

 

[nosmok]

I can confirm that at least one BB had a Heliar on it: the one I purchased years ago on evilBay as "for parts", with a totally thrashed body but decent lens. After cleanup and shutter calibration, I Frankensteined it onto an Agfa Billy "0" 127 film camera body, and it works great as far as pictures go, the ergonomics are a little wonky.

 

[JPD]

Here is a Bessa 66 with Heliar stated twice around the lens: https://www.ebay.de/itm/154751608996

 

[FotoD]

I have a Baby Bessa (66) with a 75mm Heliar. I don't think the front group looks like the one in your photo, but more like on the Skopars and triplets. (with the typical broken Moment filter). I will report back if I find it.

 

[JensH]

I have a Baby Bessa (66) with a 75mm Heliar. I don't think the front group looks like the one in your photo, but more like on the Skopars and triplets. (with the typical broken Moment filter). I will report back if I find it.

Hi,

what is a Momentfilter? Like a pale yellow Sport filter for Rolleiflex?

 

[FotoD]

Yes. A hinged yellow filter that (near) always snapped off, since it was all plastic.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

This is quite hilarious attempt to double down on Heliar name. Likely a shame what had been done to original donor camera(s).

 

[JensH]

Yes. A hinged yellow filter that (near) always snapped off, since it was all plastic.

Ah, I see. Thank you.

 

[Alex Varas]

Hi Dan,

A year ago I had one baby Bessa with Heliar in my hands, again seller was asking too much for it.

 

[JPD]

what is a Momentfilter? Like a pale yellow Sport filter for Rolleiflex?

The instructions manual for the Baby-Bessa says:

Hinged Yellow Filter
When you open the camera the filter is in position in front of the lens ready for use. If you want another density filter this can be substituted in a moment as the mount is interchangeable, and if no filter is required it can be swung clear of the lens.

For the Rangefinder Bessa it says:

Filter ready to hand
The filter is in place in front of the lens the moment the camera is opened. If you do not need it, it folds out of the way. Various shades of filters can also be substituted without difficulty, the hinged mount being of the interchangeable type.

Voigtländer Filters
Optically flat, ground from solid glass, stained in the mass, and supplied in interchangeable mounts, with case.

Two Types: Moment (light about 2x), or Normal (deeper, about 4x).
​

The Moment filter seems to be what we today would call a medium yellow filter if we go buy the "2x", but it could be lighter and meant for use with ortho or orthopan films. The Rollei Sport filter is lighter still (and was named that way due to being that light and not requiring much compensation so you could use fast shutter speeds).

 

[JensH]

The instructions manual for the Baby-Bessa says:

Hinged Yellow Filter
When you open the camera the filter is in position in front of the lens ready for use. If you want another density filter this can be substituted in a moment as the mount is interchangeable, and if no filter is required it can be swung clear of the lens.

For the Rangefinder Bessa it says:

Filter ready to hand
The filter is in place in front of the lens the moment the camera is opened. If you do not need it, it folds out of the way. Various shades of filters can also be substituted without difficulty, the hinged mount being of the interchangeable type.

Voigtländer Filters
Optically flat, ground from solid glass, stained in the mass, and supplied in interchangeable mounts, with case.

Two Types: Moment (light about 2x), or Normal (deeper, about 4x).
​

The Moment filter seems to be what we today would call a medium yellow filter if we go buy the "2x", but it could be lighter and meant for use with ortho or orthopan films. The Rollei Sport filter is lighter still (and was named that way due to being that light and not requiring much compensation so you could use fast shutter speeds).

Hi JPD,

Thank you for all those infos, learned a lot.

I have a Sportfilter for my 1937 Automat, it is wonderful for photos in the snow. The shadows stay open and it captures the bright atmosphere nicely.
I give it +1/2 stop.
Indeed it is paler than the yellow light (Gelb hell, like a B&W 021 or Kodak #5) more like a Kodak #3.

Best wishes and god jul
Jens