Is this a roll of 220?

[Pieter12]

I recently bought a Pentax 67. Inside (on the take up reel for some reason) was a roll of Ilford film, unexposed. The camera back was set to 220, and the diameter of the roll is definitely smaller compared to what I am used to from 120. Is it a roll of 220? I have no idea which emulsion it could be, either. Maybe I'll just expose and develop it at 200 and see what happens.

 

[MattKing]

Kodak 220 and 120 rolls were essentially identical in outer size. I expect the same applied to Ilford.
My bet is that the camera has a roll of rolled up backing paper only on the spool, because someone used it to check the winding and frame counter.

 

[Don_ih]

My bet is that the camera has a roll of rolled up backing paper only on the spool

That's pretty likely.

You can always unspool it in the dark until you get to the tape. If the paper ends at the tape, you know it's 220. If there's no film at the tape, you know Matt is right (and save yourself the bad feeling of shooting 24 exposures onto blank paper).

 

[rcphoto]

Could it be a 120 half roll?

 

[Pieter12]

It has not been cut, has the loading tapered tongue. I’m pretty sure the first two replies are correct. I’ll take it into the darkroom tomorrow and find out.

 

[MattKing]

Could it be a 120 half roll?

It has not been cut, has the loading tapered tongue. I’m pretty sure the first two replies are correct. I’ll take it into the darkroom tomorrow and find out.

In Japan, they apparently sold half length 120 rolls, because the "Texas Leica" Fuji rangefinders for 120 film offered a frame counter setting for them.
You can see it in this borrowed from eBay listing photo:

I've never seen one of those rolls, and I don't know if Ilford made them.
I'm sticking with my earlier guess.
By the way, one of those GW680III cameras is definitely on my wish list!

 

[loccdor]

In Japan, they apparently sold half length 120 rolls, because the "Texas Leica" Fuji rangefinders for 120 film offered a frame counter setting for them.

I saw a big listing of half length 120 Portra on eBay once, they were selling like 100 rolls of it for a high price.

These Fuji cameras were used a lot to take pictures of big tourist groups so it makes sense that they wouldn't want many pictures before a development.

 

[Mike Lopez]

I saw a big listing of half length 120 Portra on eBay once, they were selling like 100 rolls of it for a high price.

These Fuji cameras were used a lot to take pictures of big tourist groups so it makes sense that they wouldn't want many pictures before a development.

The Fuji G617 has the same "half-roll" accommodations. A relatively portable banquet camera, as it were.

 

[Pieter12]

I doubt it is a half roll. Haven’t had the chance to get into the darkroom today.

 

[MCB18]

The backing paper or sealing band will tell you what format it is. They made the difference very obvious so photographers and lab technicians could tell them apart at a glance. If it’s Ilford paper, there will be a black/white diagonal stripe pattern on the top and bottom edge, and the film name will have “220” beneath it. If it’s Kodak, there will either be “220” in big letters with horizontal lines between each repetition, or green cross-hatching along the entire width of the film with the film name being accompanied by “220”. I have yet to get my hands on any Fuji 220 paper but I suspect that it will also be marked distinctly.

However, with all that being said, you probably just have a roll of blank paper. 220 is usually fatter than 120, if only slightly. Not narrower. See attached picture for a comparison between 120 and 220 roll “fatness”.

 

[rcphoto]

@MattKing all of the GW series cameras I've owned have had a provision for the 120 half roll.

 

[MattKing]

@MattKing all of the GW series cameras I've owned have had a provision for the 120 half roll.

Not surprising.
But I'm not sure I've seen cameras other than the Fuji ones.

The backing paper or sealing band will tell you what format it is. They made the difference very obvious so photographers and lab technicians could tell them apart at a glance. If it’s Ilford paper, there will be a black/white diagonal stripe pattern on the top and bottom edge, and the film name will have “220” beneath it. If it’s Kodak, there will either be “220” in big letters with horizontal lines between each repetition, or green cross-hatching along the entire width of the film with the film name being accompanied by “220”. I have yet to get my hands on any Fuji 220 paper but I suspect that it will also be marked distinctly

Not surprisingly, this reflects backing paper/leaders and tails from when 220 was widely available.
I don't know whether there was any 220 backing paper made after Kodak and Harman/Ilford stopped printing/having printed the film identifying information on 120 backing paper. If they had continued with 220, I expect the leaders and trailers would have also lost that information.

 

[MCB18]

Not surprising.
But I'm not sure I've seen cameras other than the Fuji ones.


Not surprisingly, this reflects backing paper/leaders and tails from when 220 was widely available.
I don't know whether there was any 220 backing paper made after Kodak and Harman/Ilford stopped printing/having printed the film identifying information on 120 backing paper. If they had continued with 220, I expect the leaders and trailers would have also lost that information.

I believe Shanghai prints new 220 paper, and it has similar markings to Kodak, although without the film name. There is a very small possibility I’ll be able to get new backing paper made, and I also plan to have some kind of distinct pattern on the paper. I have yet to determine what the pattern will be, however I’m not super worried about it for now. Finding suitable ink is probably going to take years…

 

[Don_ih]

But I'm not sure I've seen cameras other than the Fuji ones.

Fuji being the only manufacturer of cameras that have a 1/2 120 roll setting while also being probably the only manufacturer of 1/2 120 rolls of film? Sounds sensible.

 

[MCB18]

Fuji being the only manufacturer of cameras that have a 1/2 120 roll setting while also being probably the only manufacturer of 1/2 120 rolls of film? Sounds sensible.

I mean, it was kinda an odd concept outside of Japan. But as I understand it, it was very popular even into the late 1990s for Japanese tourist photographers to use these half rolls of 120, since it was often more convenient to take 4-6 photos for each individual group, as opposed to having multiple groups on a single roll. That, and they could get the roll developed and printed faster than normal 120.

 

[MattKing]

I believe Shanghai prints new 220 paper, and it has similar markings to Kodak, although without the film name.

The reason for not having the film name printed on the backing paper is that the backing paper manufacturers/printers have large minimum order requirements, and the bigger film manufacturers can't afford to tie up loads of capital in several years of backing paper inventory by ordering separate product for each film.
Instead, they use the same paper for all films, and put different, film specific sealing strips on each end of the film.

 

[MCB18]

The reason for not having the film name printed on the backing paper is that the backing paper manufacturers/printers have large minimum order requirements, and the bigger film manufacturers can't afford to tie up loads of capital in several years of backing paper inventory by ordering separate product for each film.
Instead, they use the same paper for all films, and put different, film specific sealing strips on each end of the film.

Yes, I’m aware. This is what I plan to do as well, as even with the potentially very small minimum I would need to meet, I don’t want to have to manage a bunch of different papers, and would rather just have a 120 paper and a 220 paper. Also, Kodak still does print the film name on each of their papers, although that seems to be the exception, not the norm now.

 

[Pieter12]

I believe Fuji Acros is printed on the backing paper.