Is this a light leak, or did I mess up development somehow?

shawn2nd · Sep 3, 2023

Hello friends, newbie to the forum here, and also newbie to at home developing. I'm hoping to gain some insights from the community to see if my recent roll is suffering from light leaks in camera or in the film canister, or if I messed up in development. This is my first time developing a roll of Kosmo Agent Shadow 400 shot at box speed, here's my development status:

Film - Kosmo Agent Shadow 400, shot at ISO 400
Developer - Adox FX-39 II (1+9 Dilution) at 20 degrees Celsius.
10:30 minute development time with agitation for first minute, and 10 seconds every minute thereafter.
8 minute fixing time

The constant appearance of what looks like a light leak to me seems to be in the same place, but I haven't run into anything like this before yet. Granted, this is only my 8th roll of film I've developed, but hoping to gain some insights here so I can prevent it in the future. To see the images in better resolution, here's a link to the gallery: https://adobe.ly/3Z4F9i0

Alex Benjamin · Sep 3, 2023

Welcome to Photrio.

Since this seems camera-related and not development-related, I'm going to ask: what was the camera?

koraks · Sep 4, 2023

shawn2nd said:
if my recent roll is suffering from light leaks in camera or in the film canister, or if I messed up in development.

It's not development-related and the light leak most likely originates in the camera.

Welcome to Photrio!

shawn2nd · Sep 4, 2023

@Alex Benjamin @koraks the camera is a Ricoh FF3 AF point & shoot. I've shot thru 3 rolls of film on the camera previously this past July & August in various indoor and outdoor & lighting settings, and didn't have this issue previously, which led me to assume I maybe messed something up in development as that world is quite new to me, and I had doubts that the camera would develop issues within such a short time frame.

I'm trying to think of what I could have messed up, and maybe the canister got some light leaked into after I removed it from camera. I can't recall if I just put it in my sweater pocket, or if it went back into a film plastic container. :-(

But to answer the question, def light leaking issues somewhere and not dev then? Haha

Thanks for the welcomes!

koraks · Sep 4, 2023

It's camera-related and most likely has to do with the light trap along the bottom side of the camera back. It's virtually guaranteed to be caused by the camera because the light leak occurs in the exact same place on every affected image.

shawn2nd · Sep 4, 2023

@koraks well, at least my developing is ok

Alex Benjamin · Sep 4, 2023

Might be the canister—I don't know Kosmo Agent Shadow 400, or how strict their quality control is. Only way to find out is to shoot another type film and see what happens.

One thing though. 8 minutes fixing time is way too long. 3 minutes is enough in a new batch of fixer. You might bring it up to 4 or 5 after developing a few films, but no more. Make sure you wash long enough.

Also, you didn't say if you used a stop bath before the fix, but I assumed you did.

Ilford's website has a reminder of the basic process:

Beginners Guide to Processing Film

Processing film need not be daunting. Our guide on covers the equipment, chemistry and methods for anyone new to processing films.

www.ilfordphoto.com

koraks · Sep 4, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
Might be the canister

Don't think so; the light leak would not align with the frame spacing in that case. Also, canister problems tend to show up more on the first few frames and less so (or even not at all) on the final frames. In this case, the severity seems to change with every frame, which is consistent with camera light seal problems.

Alex Benjamin said:
8 minutes fixing time is way too long.

Doesn't hurt though.

Alex Benjamin · Sep 4, 2023

koraks said:
Doesn't hurt though.

Probably not, but over-fixing can lead to bleaching, doesn't it?

Over fixed? what's the effect?

According to kodak's instructions, they recommend fixing time as short as possible. But I just want to make sure the film base is properly cleared. What is the effect if I fix the film for too long, say 15 minutes? Does that mean it need extra washing time? I started using hypo clearing agent in...

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Don_ih · Sep 4, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
8 minutes fixing time is way too long.

Depends what fixer. If it's regular sodium thiosulfate fixer, it's about as short as you should go.

Alex Benjamin · Sep 4, 2023

I should add, again, that I don't know Kosmo Agent Shadow 400, so maybe the recommended fixing time is longer than other films.

Agree with koraks that it is camera-related and not a problem with the canister. Again, recommend you shoot another film to see what happens.

Of course, before that, check the light seals.

Here's a video on the light seals on that camera:

Don_ih said:
Depends what fixer. If it's regular sodium thiosulfate fixer, it's about as short as you should go.

Thanks for the reminder. I'm used to rapid fixers and often forget that there are others.

koraks · Sep 4, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
Probably not, but over-fixing can lead to bleaching, doesn't it?

Theoretically, yes. It's not a problem that pops up a lot, probably because not many people fix their film and prints for more than an hour or so.

Alex Benjamin said:
I'm used to rapid fixers and often forget that there are others.

Plain hypo fixers are pretty rare these days outside the realm of very old chemistry people dig up sometimes, and the niche of alt. process printing, wet plate etc. The commonly sold fixer products are virtually all rapid fixers.

Alex Benjamin said:
Again, recommend you shoot another film to see what happens.

But what's the rationale for doing so if everything points towards a camera light leak? Fix that first, then shoot whatever film is on hand and evaluate. If the problem persists, look in other directions (such as, checking if the camera repair was thorough to begin with!)

Don_ih · Sep 4, 2023

koraks said:
The commonly sold fixer products are virtually all rapid fixers.

This is still a very commonly sold fixer.

Alex Benjamin · Sep 4, 2023

koraks said:
But what's the rationale for doing so if everything points towards a camera light leak? Fix that first, then shoot whatever film is on hand and evaluate. If the problem persists, look in other directions (such as, checking if the camera repair was thorough to begin with!)

Agreed, that's why I suggested he first check the light seals on the camera:

Alex Benjamin said:
Agree with koraks that it is camera-related and not a problem with the canister. Again, recommend you shoot another film to see what happens.

Of course, before that, check the light seals.

Granted, I wrote it somewhat backwards, but still, my post is pretty clear and gives the same advice as you do.

And please, guys, lets not get into a long-winded debate about fixers. I, maybe incorrectly, presumed he was using a rapid fixer, so advised him to adjust his time. Not at all suggesting this has anything to do with his problem—just that he'll save 4 or 5 minutes.

koraks · Sep 4, 2023

Alex Benjamin said:
And please, guys, lets not get into a long-winded debate about fixers.

Indeed, let's not. Point taken.

George Collier · Sep 4, 2023

I agree with Koraks here - this is nearly identical to an issue I had with one of my M4's, which has a back plate hinged at the top. I spoke to Youxin Ye about it and he confirmed (he had done a CLA on this body), offered to send me a back plate which I could return if it didn't fix it. It was the hinge pin, I think, that was loose. Leak was at the bottom of the back plate (like yours, image inverted when exposing). I wound up placing graphic arts black (paper backed) tape around the back plate opening to prove the problem. I also noticed that I experienced more leaks (before the tape fix) when I held the camera with my thumb pressing the back plate. I wound up just keeping the tape, low tack, and replacing it every few months. Not a leak since.

Sirius Glass · Sep 4, 2023

shawn2nd said:
Hello friends, newbie to the forum here, and also newbie to at home developing. I'm hoping to gain some insights from the community to see if my recent roll is suffering from light leaks in camera or in the film canister, or if I messed up in development. This is my first time developing a roll of Kosmo Agent Shadow 400 shot at box speed, here's my development status:

Film - Kosmo Agent Shadow 400, shot at ISO 400

Developer - Adox FX-39 II (1+9 Dilution) at 20 degrees Celsius.

10:30 minute development time with agitation for first minute, and 10 seconds every minute thereafter.

8 minute fixing time

The constant appearance of what looks like a light leak to me seems to be in the same place, but I haven't run into anything like this before yet. Granted, this is only my 8th roll of film I've developed, but hoping to gain some insights here so I can prevent it in the future. To see the images in better resolution, here's a link to the gallery: https://adobe.ly/3Z4F9i0

View attachment 348140

Welcome to ~~APUG~~ Photrio!!

Sirius Glass · Sep 4, 2023

The light leak is on the top of all the photographs, so look for the leak on the bottom of the camera. Remember the lens flips the image upside down and right to left.

Kino · Sep 4, 2023

Cut a small piece of b&W printing paper (unexposed of course), cut it to twice the width of a 35mm film strip. Fold or cut it lengthwise to 35mm width and place it in the camera gate with emulsion facing both ways and put marks to show how it is oriented in the camera.

Take it outside and, without firing the camera, rotate it in bright sunlight for several minutes.

Process the paper normal; if you have a light leak ,it will be on the paper

john_s · Sep 4, 2023

Kino said:
Cut a small piece of b&W printing paper (unexposed of course), cut it to twice the width of a 35mm film strip. Fold or cut it lengthwise to 35mm width and place it in the camera gate with emulsion facing both ways and put marks to show how it is oriented in the camera.

Take it outside and, without firing the camera, rotate it in bright sunlight for several minutes.

Process the paper normal; if you have a light leak ,it will be on the paper

Though paper is far less sensitive to light than film. Maybe just a strip of film would be better. It wouldn't need to be doubled as film has a transparent base.

shawn2nd · Sep 7, 2023

Thanks for all the insights guys I'll let you know if I can get another Kosmo canister, I bought it randomly during a trip to London as I had never heard of it, nor seen it previously, and the packaging was cool so I'm not sure when I'll cross paths with it again.

So weird though, on the trip I was recently on I shot thru four rolls in this order with the following result:

1. Agent Shadow 400 - has the results in this thread.
2. TMAX 400 - No issues.
3 & 4. Ilford HP5 - Both had slight signs on some shots similar to the Agent Shadow 400, but nowhere near as pronounced. Like you only find them if you're looking for them.

Is this a light leak, or did I mess up development somehow?

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Over fixed? what's the effect?

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Is this a light leak, or did I mess up development somehow?

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