Is this a case of bromide drag?

Zarko · Mar 30, 2017

Hello fellow analog shooters,

Every now and then I get very annoying light streaks across my negs, as shown in the attached image. I'd like to figure out what's causing this. In terms of my developing process, I've settled on the following:

HC-110 (B) for 7min @ 24c (agitate for the first minute, then every 10 sec/about 5 inversions)
Water stop bath for 30 seconds (10 + 20 with fresh water both times)
Fix for 5 min in TETENAL Superfix Plus Fixer (agitate for the first minute, then every 10 sec/about 5 inversions)
Final wash for approximately 3 min

Thanks,

Zarko

Anon Ymous · Mar 30, 2017

No, it's not bromide drag. If it was bromide drag, then you'd notice something like a smudge beginning from a highlight area towards the perforation of the film that was lower in the tank when the film was developed.

Kino · Mar 30, 2017

+1 ^

What kind of film is it?
Do you bulk load your film (assuming 35mm)?
Have you light checked your developing tanks?
Have you checked your camera light seals?

I used to take used developing tanks, and in the dark, insert a cut sheet of photographic paper (emulsion out) around the inside of the tank. Turn on the light, hang it from a string, give it a whirl and let it hang for a day. Process the paper and see if any light leaks showed up on the paper.

You can do the same for the camera, but bulk loading a very short roll in total darkness, load the camera in total dark, dry fire it to be sure totally unexposed film is in the gate and then let it sit in a room with good natural lighting. Process the film and examine for light leaks.

Something is leaking light in your setup...

Zarko · Mar 30, 2017

Anon Ymous said:
No, it's not bromide drag. If it was bromide drag, then you'd notice something like a smudge beginning from a highlight area towards the perforation of the film that was lower in the tank when the film was developed.

Thanks. Something is clearly wrong with my developing process, but I can't figure out what. To further complicate things, these streaks don't appear on every single negative, only on some. Also, because I tend to develop two rolls at the time, one roll would have less or sometimes none of the streaks compared to the other roll.

Zarko · Mar 30, 2017

Kino said:
+1 ^

What kind of film is it?
Do you bulk load your film (assuming 35mm)?
Have you light checked your developing tanks?
Have you checked your camera light seals?

I used to take used developing tanks, and in the dark, insert a cut sheet of photographic paper (emulsion out) around the inside of the tank. Turn on the light, hang it from a string, give it a whirl and let it hang for a day. Process the paper and see if any light leaks showed up on the paper.

You can do the same for the camera, but bulk loading a very short roll in total darkness, load the camera in total dark, dry fire it to be sure totally unexposed film is in the gate and then let it sit in a room with good natural lighting. Process the film and examine for light leaks.

Something is leaking light in your setup...

I'm using HP5+, preloaded (i.e. not bulk). Wouldn't light leaks appear black instead of white once negs are developed though?

Kino · Mar 30, 2017

Zarko said:
I'm using HP5+, preloaded (i.e. not bulk). Wouldn't light leaks appear black instead of white once negs are developed though?

Black on the negative; white on the print...

Zarko · Mar 30, 2017

Kino said:
Black on the negative; white on the print...

Prints and neg scans? I ask because the attached image is a neg scan, not a scan of a print.

Neal · Mar 30, 2017

Dear Zarko,

A light leak will be darker on the negative and lighter on the positive. It doesn't matter if the negative is scanned to produce the positive.

BTW, it does look like a light leak. Much easier to deal with than if it was due to processing.

Good luck,

Neal Wydra

Rudeofus · Mar 30, 2017

Can you tell me which film tanks you use? I had at least two Paterson tanks which I accidentally dropped at some point in time, and they had subtle cracks on their bottom, leading to leakage and light leaks. Am I correct, that the bottom most film roll shows these streaks?

bdial · Mar 30, 2017

It would help if you can post a pic of the negative, unreversed and showing the entire piece of film. Usually a light leak shows darkening outside of the picture area. If the streaks are exactly the same in several places the usual cause is a leak in the camera.

Kino · Mar 30, 2017

Zarko said:
Prints and neg scans? I ask because the attached image is a neg scan, not a scan of a print.

You are dealing with a negative/positive process. Electronic or analog, it reverses the same...

Anon Ymous · Mar 30, 2017

Zarko said:
Thanks. Something is clearly wrong with my developing process, but I can't figure out what. To further complicate things, these streaks don't appear on every single negative, only on some. Also, because I tend to develop two rolls at the time, one roll would have less or sometimes none of the streaks compared to the other roll.

I don't think there's anything wrong with your developing process, I'd probably look elsewhere. If I had to make a guess, I'd say it's camera related. A leaking tank is a small possibility, but if you have something like a Jobo, Paterson, or AP tank where there's a central column, you'd probably have a different fogging pattern. If left for many hours without having the top cover on, such tanks can leak light and fog film (done that once and learned my lesson). But in such a case, you would also see the pattern created by light passing through the perforation of the film (assuming 135 format), and some kind of gradient starting from one edge of the film.

Finally, there's a very small possibility that these are stress marks, unrelated to fogging by light. If put under enough pressure, film will fog and it will appear after development. But in such cases the mark is usually sharper than that. You can rule this out by inspecting the film closely at both sides of this frame and looking for any kind of physical damage, or sign that has that shape.

Zarko · Mar 30, 2017

Rudeofus said:
Can you tell me which film tanks you use? I had at least two Paterson tanks which I accidentally dropped at some point in time, and they had subtle cracks on their bottom, leading to leakage and light leaks. Am I correct, that the bottom most film roll shows these streaks?

I'm using a Paterson thank, which has been purchased only a few months ago. Good question regarding which reel shows streaks; I'm not sure actually, but will check next time I develop.

Zarko · Mar 30, 2017

Thank you all for your replies. If this is indeed a case of light leak due to a faulty camera equipment, would you recommend that I get it serviced?

Andrew O'Neill · Mar 30, 2017

It's not bromide drag. It appears as clear streaks on the negative, black on the print. It looks like a light leak.

Rudeofus · Mar 30, 2017

Zarko said:
I'm using a Paterson thank, which has been purchased only a few months ago. Good question regarding which reel shows streaks; I'm not sure actually, but will check next time I develop.

No point in wasting two whole rolls of film on this. Two test clips, which go around the outermost part of the spindle would suffice for a test. It's imperative that the tank is agitated during this test just like you would normally agitate, because a small light leak on the bottom of your film tank will not become apparent if it sits on your desk the entire time.

John Wiegerink · Mar 30, 2017

Zarko,
With bulk film you throw several variable into the pot. Your bulk loader? Your cassettes? Your developing tank? Your camera? You have to do a process of elimination to find the gremlin. Bulk loader......do you load you cassette in the same light every time? Cassettes................do you use different cassettes (I honestly don't think it's the cassettes)? Developing tank.........Paterson has to have the center tube in it. Camera..........is the light leak showing up in the same spot every time you do have a light leak? Also, if it is a bad seal in the camera and you shot a roll fairly fast you might not see a light leak. Whereas a frame setting in the same position for several hours or days has a much greater time span to suck light from the leak. What camera are you shooting with?

chassis · Apr 2, 2017

Not bromine drag. Bromine drag is more like smudge or a shadow that follows the shape of the image. The example above does not follow this.

Additionally, bromine drag is often seen with longer development times, for example longer than 10 minutes, and with low amounts of agitation (semi-stand, reduced agitation, etc.). The development example given above is less than 10 minutes, and is fairly vigorous agitation.

Rudeofus · Apr 2, 2017

Zarko said:
Thank you all for your replies. If this is indeed a case of light leak due to a faulty camera equipment, would you recommend that I get it serviced?

Depends very much on camera and exact source of fault. If its just some missing foam, then service should be very cheap. More complicated issues will cost more than US$/€ 100 and will quickly be more expensive than a used camera.

Zarko · Apr 13, 2017

Here's a quick update:

In order to check if my camera is indeed suffering from light leaks, I shot 6 rolls and got them developed by a local lab (instead of doing it myself). Guess what, not a single roll showed any trace of light leaks, so something is definitely wrong either with my developing technique, or equipment. I'm using a standard Paterson tank, but I'm suspicious of the film reels as they may have residue left on them from the wetting agent. It's not visible to my eye, but reels fee a bit too stiff when spooling the film. I'll scrub them with a toothbrush tonight and see if that helps the situation.

Rudeofus · Apr 13, 2017

If light leak through crack in dev tank is still a possible source of these light leaks, you could try wrapping your film tank in tin foil when you load the film in the dark. Keep the tin foil around the tank at least until fixer stage, and make sure that all parts of the tank except for the lid are covered.

One more thing that could have gone wrong and caused this: you do use the black tube that holds the film spindle between lid and tank bottom, yes?

Zarko · Apr 13, 2017

Rudeofus said:
If light leak through crack in dev tank is still a possible source of these light leaks, you could try wrapping your film tank in tin foil when you load the film in the dark. Keep the tin foil around the tank at least until fixer stage, and make sure that all parts of the tank except for the lid are covered.

One more thing that could have gone wrong and caused this: you do use the black tube that holds the film spindle between lid and tank bottom, yes?

I've inspected the tank and couldn't find any crack in it. Yes, I do mount the reels onto the black tube in the tank.

Gerald C Koch · Apr 13, 2017

When there is bromide drag there are areas of decreased development just down from areas of heavy exposure. (Down from is relative to gravity so it is important to know the orientation of the film during development.) BD is caused by the release of bromide ions from these heavy areas restricting development. The position of the decreased development is very distinctive. That being said bromide drag is caused by insufficient agitation as in stand development. Bromide drag is also more probable with developers that contain little or no bromide such as D-76. Therefore the added bromide from development has a greater effect. Preventing BD is one of the reasons some bromide is in most developer formulations.

Anon Ymous · Apr 15, 2017

Zarko said:
... In order to check if my camera is indeed suffering from light leaks, I shot 6 rolls and got them developed by a local lab (instead of doing it myself). Guess what, not a single roll showed any trace of light leaks, so something is definitely wrong either with my developing technique, or equipment...It's not visible to my eye, but reels fee a bit too stiff when spooling the film...

Hello Zarko...

This greatly minimises (almost eliminates) the probability of camera related light leak, but doesn't rule it out. In my experience, light leaks can happen sporadically between rolls of film shot with the same, faulty camera. But since you mentioned that your film reels feel a bit stiff, could you please have a look at the frame of film you attached and check if there is any sign of physical damage, or pressure where the marks are, at both sides?

sewarion · Apr 15, 2017

Zarko. I am having the same issue I guess. In my case the streaks line up exactly with the wider part ('loading part') of the development reel I am spooling my film onto. Just had a case of yell'n'curse yesterday. I held the neg strip into the reel and it matches up perfectly. So I assume that there might be a sharp edge or similar in one (half) of my reels. Now I just have to find the culprit reel, which sucks as I have 5 of them, consisting of 10 halves. I advise you to begin with checking your reels.

Is this a case of bromide drag?

Zarko

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