Is there really a revival of analog photography

PerTulip

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Arthurwg said:
That was a rebellion against the practices and pictures produced by "professional photography." That's what we need today. Let's put an end to photography by computer and return it to an art practiced by humans.
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You are mixing profession and art. In any professional workflow, digital is expected. From releases to printing. 99% of marketing departments, agencies, etc. aren't even able to handle film any more.
 

Arthurwg

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PerTulip said:
You are mixing profession and art. In any professional workflow, digital is expected. From releases to printing. 99% of marketing departments, agencies, etc. aren't even able to handle film any more.[/QUOT


Errr...Yes I know that. Just say'n....
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Down Under

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Well, let's all cross our fingers and hope!!

True, in the absence of any reliable data, we can only "anecdotal" about this. In my own experience, two conclusions. One, my photo retailer in Melbourne told me film sales went up quite a lot mid-2020 when the Covid lockdowns hit en masse. The big analog rush lasted for a few months and then dropped very suddenly - it was as if people took out their film cameras, dusted them off, put a few rolls through them, and then lost interest. The same retailer said their digital sales were not particularly affected, but then added these sales have been dropping steadily anyway over the past 2-3 years. So it goes.

Two, the price of film and processing in Australia (now insanely high) may be an strong indicator that film photography is not only in decline but has become a 'niche' pastime - I do know that with my collection of film Nikons, Rolleiflexes, Contax Gs and a few German folders, I'm now slowly but steadily using up my refrigerated stocks - I shoot 2-3 rolls a week, almost entirely B&W, and process these at home - I recently invested in a some 100-foot rolls of Ilford B&W (Kodak having priced itself out of my budget for bulk B&W film), but sadly, when this film, my carefully hoarded Panatomic-X and 120 roll stocks are completely used up, that will be it for me in analog and I will then probably sell these cameras and shoot digital for the rest of my life.

This is the reality of the 21st century. We may not like it (I certainly don't), but we have to go with the flow, so to say.

Like many others I now mostly shoot Ilford (when I buy bulk film) and had long hoped China would get into the market and produce some new films, other than Shanghai and that other even more horrible brand, the name of which eludes me. I think I last used Shanghai in the 2012 or 2013 when I was able to buy a stash of it from a retailer in Singapore (who was selling out of films, BTW) and I found it wasn't too bad, tho film speeds seemed to be all over the place and no two rolls exposed alike gave me the same results. I no longer shoot for sales so this wasn't a major concern to me, but I do look for consistency in my photography, so I gave up on Shanghai. I have no idea if this brand is even made any more, not having seen any being sold on Ebay for ages. So it goes.

I agree with Robert Maxey (#25) that was we see on the street is not necessarily what the true situation is - nor do I put any great value on what gets posted on YouTube. If anyone needs confirmation about this latter point, I suggest you look up "aliens" and see what you get.

Like Robert Maxey said, I too hope the film industry grows and prospers. Not holding my breath on this and I will say no more.

Just my two hundred Indonesian rupiahs on the topic.
 

Down Under

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Moving on from my last post...

I Googled Shanghai B&W film and came up with several listings - on Australian Ebay, surprise!!

Shanghai GP3 ISO 100 35mm film, five rolls A$45.00, a supplier in Sydney. Free postage. I buy Ilford in 100-foot bulk rolls for A$130.00 (+/- 20 rolls if I load my cassettes carefully and reuse a leader), so no go.

Another supplier (in China) has 120 rolls of the same film, five rolls A$46.19 (why the odd cents??). Given the crappy quality control of this film, I'll pass. Free postage. Also 4x5 in 25 sheet packs (no interest here from me) and 100-foot bulk rolls, prices on the latter similar to what I'm paying for Ilford in bulk.

So there is hope. Sort of. In a small way.

120 plastic film spools, 10 for $15. Had we known in our darkroom days that there would be a future sale market here, we could now all be millionaires, ha!!

Sadly, all my old film suppliers from the days when I bought on Ebay, have vanished with the four winds.
 
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Mainecoonmaniac

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My wife and I was in a mall in Corte Madera. There was a called "Collector's Photography Gallery".https://www.collectorsphotographygallery.com I thought it was one of those mall galleries that sold digital prints of one photographer. To my surprise, they had some pieces by Lewis Hine, and Bernice Abbot. The two gals in their 20's that worked at the gallery were very knowledgable about the classic silver gelatin prints. One was a painter and the other women is a photographer that shot wet plate collodion. Both said they like the physical nature of analog photography. To me, it seems that the only area that is even slightly interested in analog photography is the area of fine art. Another unusual aspect of their fondness for analog images is being comfortable with uncertainty while making photographs. The photographer recommended Seawood photo store in the town near by. https://www.seawood.com/
 

Moose22

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Understanding that data is not the plural of anecdote, I had an experience this weekend that might fit in here.

A girl at a coffee shop I occasionally visit has decided we are friends. I don't know why, but one day she just started telling me what was going on in her life. I think she's like a cat that just decides to hang out with you even if you ignore it. She's in the 18-20 range, seems a good person, kind to people, so I'm good with it. I try not to discourage nice people from being nice.

When she noticed my cameras she said she has been wanting to try film photography. I've got a few 135 bodies, been trying them out to decide which to keep, which to sell on, and she asked to buy whatever one I don't want to keep.

Now, I'd literally just let her have any of my cameras for as long as she wants to try them out. But she won't do that. She wants to be independent, and is working toward that. A fine trait for a 19 year old. But I'm carrying an FM3A and an F6 right now, and prices on them were too high already, and just stupid now. And I like my F3 enough to keep it.

So to protect her pride but get her going I kept an eye out for a bargain. Eventually, I bought an N75 from Huss for $40 and gave her that plus a couple rolls of film. It's actually a crapload of camera for the price, and she thought I was lying to her about how cheap it was.... I wasn't, they're bargain cameras and I charged her what Huss charged me. I kinda want one for myself.

But here's the relevant part. As she was looking at it a couple of her friends/coworkers popped up and looked over her shoulder. One told her "now you HAVE to shoot some!" They've been talking about it for a while, and both coworkers are shooting film now. One told me she just got an old Minolta camera and really liked my FM3A. The other had started using her father's old camera - -didn't even know what it was -- after having run a few rolls of film through an old point and shoot.

Maybe it isn't a revival, per se, but these aren't the first under 25s I've run into interested in film. I've been approached by a few while out shooting, so there are at least some younger people eschewing their phones long enough to at least try analog.
 
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Mainecoonmaniac

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We shall see how long this analog infatuation will last. Some will give up because there's no instant gratification. Some will see the value of analog photography and be in it for the long run. Time will tell.
 

Down Under

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Mainecoonmaniac said:
We shall see how long this analog infatuation will last. Some will give up because there's no instant gratification. Some will see the value of analog photography and be in it for the long run. Time will tell.
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Agree. As for the teen in Moose22's post (#82), I used to meet these often. We had them signing up for the beginner's B&W courses we gave when I lived in Tasmania until just before Covid struck. They came to one or two classes (we were presenting six sessions with two outdoor shoots and one studio setup) but then lost interest and dropped out. Most fiddled with their mobile phones during the sessions and disliked being told to please not to do this - their conversations were distracting the class. One thought he would be able to use his mobile phone for the actual photography and kept asking how he could "fix" it to shoot B&W. None had any cameras. Most wanted Nikons but Ebay quickly prices put them off.

Ten second attention spans, insistence on immediate images, lack of social skills evidenced by (most) not responding or saying anything in class or (a few) wanting to argue everything we said. Mobile phone addiction. Wanting free film and processing (word had got out that two of us had darkrooms). Some were polite and seemed keen, but lost interest after a few classes. Information overload, probably.

We did four courses and had 60-65 students. Two finished in the end. AFAIK they are still photographing. One set up his own web site and looks to be doing super well, but had to drop out of his engineering course at university because of Covid and tells me he is now feeling depressed and lacking in motivation, so not doing any photography. I suggested a shoot with a few others as "therapy" - he responded that he tried this, but nobody would join him in going out with their cameras, in fact nobody had any cameras and were mostly using their mobile phones and online-simulating to B&W in post processing. Is this the new trend?

Anecdotal, maybe. I sure hope so. We now live in a regional center in Victoria (state) with a population of about 9000. Nobody I know here has a film camera. A few of us old-timers put up flyers locally and posted online info to try to get up a film shooters group, but so far no response.

So I don't know...
 

Moose22

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What's interesting about these girls, and some of the other young people I've met with cameras lately, is the lack of phones. I mean, this cat I got the N75 for... I can't even tell you what kind of phone she has. I know she has one, she texted me once, but I've never seen it. When she hangs out with her friends there is never a phone on the table or in their hands, they just talk and enjoy each other's company. It's like they are anti-millenneals.

Of course, when she was thinking about the new camera and asking what one if the switches did she said "So... there's no display. How do you know if you got the shot? Oh... you just have to wait..." so she is only just working out the differences. But she seemed excited by that prospect, and for the few who like that thing it's actually a plus to analog, not a minus.

All that said, it's not for everyone and that's the reason I found her a $40 camera, not a $400 camera. You don't test the depth of the river with both feet.

The others I mention might not be representative, because I met them while I was out at one of my local spots that had a good view and sometimes interesting sunsets. They were there for the same thing and spotted me (I was using a GX680, so a weird and ridiculously big camera) and came over. But, still, under 30 and shooting film. I'm not saying there are a ton of them, but a few who stuck to it. And one who had never shot a DSLR in his life, just went phone to film.
 

mexicoke

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I'm 24 now and have been shooting film since I was 19, even before I touched digital. Never was interested in digital back then and even now I only reluctantly shoot it for commission work. It certainly is popular among my friends of a similar age group who were never that into photography before. I have also been fortunate to find a niche in boudoir and art nude photography shot on film where I am one of the few young photographers with a portfolio specialized in this area. Models tell me they are more comfortable with someone young shooting them instead of older folks who may be the only others specializing in using film for art nude shots. Then again, the models I shoot are usually my age so it could be that they are more comfortable posing nude to the gaze of someone of similar age.
 

alanrockwood

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Dismayed said:
The real scam is that his heirs will be allowed to mark shares to market on the day that they inherited them, so taxes on gains are never paid.
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I benefited from that when my parents died and I inherited a house from them. That (combined with a couple of other unexpected windfalls) are what has made it possible for me to be in a decent financial situation rather than a not so good financial situation when I retired.
 

Dismayed

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The exclusion from the Federal Estate tax is $11.7 million for single people and $23.4 million for married couples. If your inheritance was large enough to be subjected to the Federal Estate tax, then you shouldn't complain about paying gains on the original cost basis.
 

alanrockwood

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The important thing is that the basis of the property was re-set to the market price, which means that if I ever sell the property my tax burden will be less than if it were the previous basis, which in this case would have been $0 (which by the way is exactly what you said.)
 

AZD

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For me it has been a revival in the literal sense. I had not used film cameras since about 2006. Shortly after that I got a D80, which I still have and occasionally use. But I hated the fiddly dials, buttons, and menus, and equally hated the process of editing files. My wife's phone became the vacation camera, and I stopped taking pictures almost entirely. But in May of 2019 I got the bug again. I still had several Takumar lenses (though no body) and my old darkroom equipment. While it had been sitting in the basement, I had since been to almost half of the States, plus Afghanistan, Austria, Canada, Kuwait, The Netherlands, Peru, South Korea, and the UAE - all without a real camera. Thinking about it kind of made my heart sink. Did I really hate editing images that much? Yes, actually. I did. So, one weekend and $25 later I had a Spotmatic SP and started using film again. Then started printing again. And as long as there is a market to support me I'll continue. Holding my prints is so much better than staring at a screen. I suppose there are others who feel the same.

For those who never (or rarely) used a film camera, there seems to be a mystique around film. Some good, some bad, and some total nonsense. I've had people ask about my cameras while hiking or at events. I'm not intentionally making a show of them, but angular silver objects at eye level are uncommon enough to attract attention. When they ask, I hand them the camera, and it's like handing them the keys to an exotic car. Nobody ever felt that way about a Spotmatic or Nikkormat in the 1990s. We all wanted an F5 because good night they were beautiful things. I vaguely remember coming across a Nikkormat with 58mm f1.4 back then and thinking it was a bunch of weird, clunky garbage. How times have changed!

Will the film trend last? I don't know, but I am hopeful it will. There are some good camera stores in the Salt Lake area. At least four of them still sell film and an assortment of used gear. One just opened a beautiful new store in one of the trendiest SLC neighborhoods. Their goal is to create a community space for photography in general, but are clearly heavy on film. I really like the approach and atmosphere. And I think it will be places like this that get people interested in creating and displaying photographs, not just snapping away and posting the results for a quick dopamine hit.

The biggest threat to film is that it truly takes an investment of time and effort (and cash!) to get good results, and so much more to get great results. If shooting film is just a hashtag applied to 36 poorly exposed, poorly scanned images, people will eventually lose interest. If it is a process - hybrid or traditional - which users find rewarding, they'll likely stick around. Get them hooked on the magic of the darkroom and they could become true film junkies.

Now, my digital repentance: I recently saw some extra-large prints from a Leica Monochrom. They were excellent in every way. Now, if I could get that sort of quality with a digital file, but print to a large format negative, and still have my darkroom prints... best not go there for now. But maybe one day, as a backup plan in case the revival loses its momentum.
 

Helge

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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:
The single most important thing to the film revival continuing and blossoming, is getting an affordable, user friendly scanner out there as quickly as possible.
That is the only thing keeping most people from continuing with film.
Draconian prizes for bad scans, just feels instinctively like a fraud even to someone completely new to film.
The extremely vexing thing is that it is easier and cheaper than ever to make such a scanner.

Something like the Scanza type scanner with a much better sensor and decent optics could be sold for not much more than it’s sold for now.

And something significantly better could be done for just a smidge more.

There would be, if not a huge market, then a significant market out there, not just for enthusiasts but also for people with negatives that need scanning.

Considering all the electronic toy crap that is produced routinely for even more marginal markets, it’s completely inexplicable why someone hasn’t jumped on this opportunity yet.

Even a 24 MP device would be a huge step up from current offerings.
Of course if you could avoid the Bayer filter and use finely tuned tri or four colour LED light and film gate for medium format too, that would be nice.
 

mrosenlof

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Kumar managed to sell an 8x10 camera here in about 22 hours. One more anecdote.
 

CMoore

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Guns, Drums, Painting, Piano, Archery, Fishing, Hot-Rods, Guitars, Carpentry........
Ammo, drum sticks, canvas, keyboards, fishing rods, guitar strings, router bits

Is there any Hobby, Craft, Art form (besides film photography) that does not Manufacture and Sell one of its MAIN components.?

I imagine there are 4x5 and 8x10 cameras still being made, but what is that compared to 120 and 35mm.
Nobody is making a square format, 6x7 or 35mm camera for the masses.
Film sales have increased right NOW, but what about 5 years from now.?

Unless camera start to be manufactured again, i do not see how there will ever be a film "Revival"
 

MattKing

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There are huge numbers of film cameras being manufactured right now.
Almost all of them are Instax cameras, or disposable cameras, because right now there are still huge gluts of long lasting used "normal" film cameras out there.
If there weren't, Kodak and others wouldn't be struggling to keep up with the demand for film.
 

CMoore

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Yeah, but there are ZILLIONS of used guitars, guns, drum kits and fishing gear.
But there is also EQUAL Quality new, of the same thing, being made. Because there is a demand for them.
If A LOT of people lost interest, then SURE, companies that make drum heads and strings could survive manufacturing for the instruments that exist. But that is a bleak future that will die at some point. Like i asked, who is doing this besides film companies.,?

Is that what Kodak is planning on. Selling film for cameras that exist now and making film for throw away camera.?

I have taken a photo class twice at my local college.
Every kid that came with a camera from Ebay or a thrift store, came with a camera that had problems.

Like i say, i am not talking about today.
Going forward. i do not think film will survive on 30-40-50-60 year old cameras that need repair.

I would think Kodak will need a new generation of camera purchasing photographers.
I do not see how the FUTURE of film can survive when no cameras are being made.

I just signed up for another film class. The lab guy told the students to PLEASE Borrow a camera from the school. Theirs work.
He has seen too many cameras, these last several years, come with students, and they do not function properly.
 

MattKing

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My favorite local store takes in cameras, checks them, cleans, adjusts and sometimes makes simple repairs on them, warranties them (for 30 days) and sells them on consignment.
They are deluged by 35mm SLRs - more then they can handle - and have no trouble selling them and supporting them.
 

Alan Edward Klein

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If there's a demand, manufacturers will make them. Look at vinyl records. They started to sell music on them again. Manufacturers are making electronic tube amplifiers and other new record playing and music playing equipment. Film companies are doing much better today. There are dozens of them. Once existing cameras that work become hard to find, you'll start to see new cameras again. As the cost of old cameras goes up, then the repair business to tune up that equipment will pick up as it will become worth it again to be a repairman. Just keep shooting. These things will take care of themselves.
 

pentaxuser

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If a scanner is the most important thing then this would seem to bode ill for the future of darkroom paper, wouldn't it?

On the IlfordPhoto site yesterday there was info on the Photography Show at Birmingham's National Exhibition Centre (NEC) next month and there seemed to be little there in terms of lectures, stands etc to indicate that those in the "photography business" other than Ilford's presence have yet recognised a revival in analogue matters that is of sufficient import to warrant much attention.

The Imaging Warehouse, formerly called Nova Darkroom, send me a lot of info on their courses but all of it pertains to Permajet and has nothing to do with traditional darkroom stuff

pentaxuser
 
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