Is there interest in a New Rapid Rectilinear lens?

Nodda Duma · Dec 2, 2014

SchwinnParamount said:
... but there's no *gee wizz*, that's the magical glass that will make everything work perfectly?

You gotta understand...to me they are tools in a toolbox. Each glass type has its place. You're essentially asking if a hydraulic log splitter is the best tool ever. Well, I wouldn't use a log splitter to unbolt a cylinder head but that doesn't mean a log splitter isn't a useful tool.

A question I could more easily address is how useful is a specific feature that you see hyped up by marketing...feel free to start a post and point me to it. I could better provide some insight that way I think (although a forum search might be prudent to avoid beating dead horses).

Regards,
Jason

Nodda Duma · Dec 2, 2014

Btw Dr. Croubie, the radioactive lenses were Thorium-doped.

Nodda Duma · Dec 2, 2014

Ah here's the tie-in from the market buzzwords to the actual glass types

http://www.schott.com/advanced_optics/english/download/schott-fluoro-phosphate-glasses-may-2014.pdf

I'm familiar with those glasses and use them when needed and when cost isn't an issue. The KZFS glasses are particularly expensive but they have their place. Many times I can cut in a cheaper glass type...the couple of times I couldn't usually involved very wide spectral bands outside of visible.

Nodda Duma · Dec 2, 2014

Schott must be an exciting place to work.

E. von Hoegh · Dec 2, 2014

Michael R 1974 said:
There sure are a lot of exclamation points in that presentation.

Advertising copywriters are probably the only group which lies more egregiously and consistently than fishermen and politicians.

E. von Hoegh · Dec 2, 2014

Nodda Duma said:
You gotta understand...to me they are tools in a toolbox. Each glass type has its place. You're essentially asking if a hydraulic log splitter is the best tool ever. Well, I wouldn't use a log splitter to unbolt a cylinder head but that doesn't mean a log splitter isn't a useful tool.

A question I could more easily address is how useful is a specific feature that you see hyped up by marketing...feel free to start a post and point me to it. I could better provide some insight that way I think (although a forum search might be prudent to avoid beating dead horses).

Regards,
Jason

One reason - of many, buried surfaces being one - to use cemented groups is to end up with the characteristics of a glass type which is not manufactured.

Dr Croubie · Dec 2, 2014

Nodda Duma said:
Ah here's the tie-in from the market buzzwords to the actual glass types

http://www.schott.com/advanced_optics/english/download/schott-fluoro-phosphate-glasses-may-2014.pdf

I'm familiar with those glasses and use them when needed and when cost isn't an issue. The KZFS glasses are particularly expensive but they have their place. Many times I can cut in a cheaper glass type...the couple of times I couldn't usually involved very wide spectral bands outside of visible.

Wow, I knew Fluorite elements were special, but had no idea how far off the end of the chart that they were until I saw that diagram (of course, there may be other types that far away that were omitted to make their glass seem better).
But still, I'm also aware of how hard and expensive fluorite is to make, I've read that the Canon 1200/5.6 L was made-to-order with 12-18 month lead time, 9 months of that was just to grow the fluorite crystal big enough to grind down into a lens...

Nodda Duma · Dec 2, 2014

That's a technical presentation with very little "marketing hype". So they don't eliminate glass types to make those look good (physics does that for them). They'd get laughed out of the conference room if they tried that in front of their customers. You can look up glass maps to see available glasses...but that presentation was the first thing I found that ties the marketing terms to technical terms.

Schott has notoriously long lead times. They're like the Kodak of the glass supply world...arrogant in their position and falling behind other suppliers. The optical shops I get quotes from rarely order glass from Schott because their lead times are uncompetitive and unpredictable. That's a schedule killer and both the shops and (good) designers know it.

You can google for glass maps by Schott, O'Hara, Hoya, CDGM and see what glass types are out there. It's not a mystery.

pdeeh · Dec 2, 2014

Perhaps it's a quirk of your spellchecker but I think it's OHARA not O'Hara btw.

Nodda Duma · Dec 2, 2014

Yeah probably

Nodda Duma · Dec 9, 2014

Glass quotes came back. Not as expensive as I had feared, and not as cheap as we had hoped. They're actually pretty good for a 6-element design with modern broadband coatings. That's worth a beer and some Kickstarter planning.

Dumagon may see the light of day yet

Ari · Dec 9, 2014

Still following with keen interest; keep up the great work, Jason.
Thanks

adelorenzo · Dec 9, 2014

++What Ari said.

Sirius Glass · Dec 10, 2014

LJH said:
IMO, Petzval swirl is fairly 2008... Time we moved on. A silly effect , much like digital images that have film borders superimposed on to them. Gimmick at best

A true soft focus lens leaves a swirly Petzval for dead.

Again, wide angles for ULF are my preference. They can be used for smaller formats where coverage is required (eg. architecture, product shooting etc), opening up more sales opportunities.

In a few years I have seen enough Petzval swirl to last multiple life times. Lets drop the subject of Petzvals.

Nodda Duma · Dec 10, 2014

Here's a thought to ponder: Do you think a Kickstarter to prototype at least 3 lenses at something like a ~$25k threshold would have a chance at success? Say, the folks who buy in at the higher levels would get prototypes shipped or loaned to them to try out on their own cameras while I test the third? Maybe prints from the testers to send out to folks who bought in at the lower levels? A $25k's doable, dontcha think?

I'm pondering this because it just makes sense to prototype a new lens, but my cash flow gets funneled off into bills like most people. So many problems could be solved by being independently wealthy, no? I have the sweat equity and the skill set at least.

-Jason

Dr Croubie · Dec 10, 2014

I'd say it really depends on number of people more than cash raised. Maybe 25 people might be willing to fork over $1k each, but if the price is $500 you'll probably get a lot more than 50 people and end up with more cash at the end of it. If the price is $250, you might not get 100 people, because there can't be too many 8x10 shooters out there who are in desparate need of this lens (but then, if you're not covering your costs, that's kinda pointless).
There's definitely going to be a sweet spot somewhere, but it'll depend on your costs first I'd say.

TheToadMen · Dec 10, 2014

Nodda Duma said:
Glass quotes came back. Not as expensive as I had feared, and not as cheap as we had hoped. They're actually pretty good for a 6-element design with modern broadband coatings. That's worth a beer and some Kickstarter planning.

Dumagon may see the light of day yet

If you'll start planning, then I'll take care of the beer....
We have an excellent local brewery, so when in Amsterdam: http://www.brouwerijhetij.nl/category/beers/

Nodda Duma · Dec 10, 2014

Sounds like a plan to me!

I started brewing my own a while back. The local beer making supply store has lots of beers from around the world. I'll have to see if he can get a sample.

Oh and I'll have to come up with a better name for the lens. My 8-yr old daughter pointed out that sounds a lot like Dumb-agon. Of course maybe that was the joke and it flew over my head

Sal Santamaura · Dec 10, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
In a few years I have seen enough Petzval swirl to last multiple life times...

Fortunately, most threads on that subject use the word "Petzval" in their titles, so I've been able to avoid clicking on them and subjecting myself to seasickness.

Sirius Glass said:
...Lets drop the subject of Petzvals.

Yes, shall we please?

pdeeh · Dec 10, 2014

Nodda Duma said:
Oh and I'll have to come up with a better name for the lens. My 8-yr old daughter pointed out that sounds a lot like Dumb-agon. Of course maybe that was the joke and it flew over my head

Not at all, no joke on you intended whatsoever

I'll be disappointed if you drop it as a name as I hoped that, as I coined it, I might get a free lens

StoneNYC · Dec 10, 2014

pdeeh said:
Not at all, no joke on you intended whatsoever

I'll be disappointed if you drop it as a name as I hoped that, as I coined it, I might get a free lens

Even I don't expect a free Dumegon and we all know how much free stuff I search for! Hah!

TheToadMen · Dec 10, 2014

Sirius Glass said:
In a few years I have seen enough Petzval swirl to last multiple life times. Lets drop the subject of Petzvals.

I'm not looking for Petzval effects, but I do like to get me a lens for photography in the "Pictorialism" style from 100 years ago. Like the well known Edward Steichen and Alfred Stieglitz (an many more good photographers). Hence the "diffused" option of the lens.

I would like to make some nice large negatives for contact printing with gum, albumen and carbon processes.

Old-N-Feeble · Dec 10, 2014

I think Imagons and Portrait Ektars are just about the perfect pictorial lenses if variable soft glow is what you want. These cemented doublets should be fairly cheap to make but they'd have to be in the $200-800 range for focal lengths of 200-600mm. Keeping them fast enough mounted in #3 shutters wouldn't be possible in the longer focal lengths though, so they'd have to be made to mount into Ilex or Compound #5... or find some other alternative such as a drop-shutter or just use Packard-style.

Nodda Duma · Dec 10, 2014

pdeeh said:
Not at all, no joke on you intended whatsoever

I'll be disappointed if you drop it as a name as I hoped that, as I coined it, I might get a free lens

Tell you what, you buy in on a Kickstarter lens and I'll name yours "Free Lens" when I ship it.

Regular Rod · Dec 11, 2014

Please can some kind soul save me from wading through what has become a very long and tortuous thread that had me so dizzy I stopped reading it shortly after it deviated around page 3?

Can we confirm that there is indeed interest in a new rapid rectilinear lens?

Is there a Kickstarter campaign to get these lenses designed and made? If so please can we have a link?

What about Copal, Seiko, Compur, Silex or any other mid-lens style shutters? Can we look forward to a fresh supply of these from some enterprising mechanical genius on here?

Thank you

RR

Is there interest in a New Rapid Rectilinear lens?

Advertiser

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency