Is there a tank-based method for developing 4x5 sheets?

I started out (and have since been) developing both 4x5 sheet film & roll film in-Jobo. The system has always worked great for me, despite complaints that I've heard over the years. Tempering is dead-on, agitation and times are easily kept consistent from batch to batch.

Recently I've begun to explore the fascinating world of "Rodinal". Up to now, everything has always gone the route of D76, Xtol & HC-110. With Rodinal however, I've learned that 'edge-effects' (accutance) simply doesn't work well with constant agitation, which brings my question:

Is there a tank-based method (other then dip-n-dunk) for processing 4x5 sheet film that is similar to the method for processing roll film?

I haven't really kept an eye out for anything like this as up to now, I simply had no need to alter my current processing techniques. I know that Jobo has a tank-n-reel system for 4x5 sheet film, but that is to be used in conjuction with it's line of rotary processors.

Any insights would be appreciated.

Happy 2006

iserious said:

I know that Jobo has a tank-n-reel system for 4x5 sheet film, but that is to be used in conjuction with it's line of rotary processors.

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That's not true. It's easier if you use it with the processor. It uses less chemicals if you use it rotary. But other then the masive amount of chemicals the 2500 type tanks take in inversion mode nothing really stops you. I think a few of the people here are actually using them that way.

There is an old Nikkor tank that did 4x5 as well as the Combi-Plan. I have used the Combi-Plan and had good luck with it. I have not used the Nikkow system.

You can also use jdef's "taco" method with a 35/120 paterson-style tank. You put a rubber band around the sheet, emulsion side in, which makes it curl. You then fit it inside the tank (obviously no reels). I think you can fit about 2 sheets in a 2x35mm tank.

You need to move the rubber band around during the washing to get all of the dye and whatnot out. It's fine during development and during fixing, though, to leave it.

This is what I have done with 4x5 in my pinhole camera, and will be doing with 5x7 next quarter.

allan

I have a set of 4x5 tanks that are basically cubic in design. They have light tight lids with pour spouts just like 35mm tanks.

The film is slid into slots in a removable rack and they are pinned in place with stainless steel pins that go through one corner of each negative to hold them firmly in the slots.

The rack is lowered into the tank, the lid is sealed, the developer is poured in and then you can turn on the lights and agitate the tank. Alternatively, you can process in the dark with the lid off.

I have made many runs of both B&W and color using this setup.

And, of course there are the old 4x5 hard rubber tanks made by Kodak. They have floating lids and take the 4x5 stainless racks. I have a set of them as well.

The Formulary makes a very nice 4x5 tray that allows you to develop several sheets of film at one time in individual 'compartments' in the larger tray.

PE

kaiyen said:

You can also use jdef's "taco" method with a 35/120 paterson-style tank. You put a rubber band around the sheet, emulsion side in, which makes it curl. You then fit it inside the tank (obviously no reels). I think you can fit about 2 sheets in a 2x35mm tank.

You need to move the rubber band around during the washing to get all of the dye and whatnot out. It's fine during development and during fixing, though, to leave it.

This is what I have done with 4x5 in my pinhole camera, and will be doing with 5x7 next quarter.

allan

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Regarding the Hand agitation (minimum agitation or otherwise) use of Jobo and other drums for film processing, take a look at this thread:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Also, home made BZTS tubes (using ABS pipe from Home Depot, etc.) are very well suited for minimal agitation or Stand development of sheet film of all sizes.

See: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Photo Engineer said:

I have a set of 4x5 tanks that are basically cubic in design. They have light tight lids with pour spouts just like 35mm tanks.

The film is slid into slots in a removable rack and they are pinned in place with stainless steel pins that go through one corner of each negative to hold them firmly in the slots.

The rack is lowered into the tank, the lid is sealed, the developer is poured in and then you can turn on the lights and agitate the tank. Alternatively, you can process in the dark with the lid off.

I have made many runs of both B&W and color using this setup.

And, of course there are the old 4x5 hard rubber tanks made by Kodak. They have floating lids and take the 4x5 stainless racks. I have a set of them as well.

The Formulary makes a very nice 4x5 tray that allows you to develop several sheets of film at one time in individual 'compartments' in the larger tray.

PE

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Yes, PE, I have one of PF's "Slosher Trays" in 8x10 and it works very well. I also have a 4x5 & a 5x7 Summitek Cradle (same as a Slosher Tray). All of these trays are made of acrylic plastic.

Photo Engineer said:

The Formulary makes a very nice 4x5 tray that allows you to develop several sheets of film at one time in individual 'compartments' in the larger tray.

PE

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I take it you're referring to "Photographer's Formulary" ? I'll check out their site. Sounds interesting. I'm not too kean on processing sheet film in regular trays. The sheets tend to stick together and well.. I can't see how someone would manage doing it this way on a regular basis. However if there's a special tray designed for this, I'd certainly be interested in checking it out.

Just use 4x5 film hangers and an open tank, you must have a light tight darkroom though. I have used all methods of develpoing 4x5 film and I get great results this way. The key is to avoid surge marks on the edges. Do this by going in and out of the developer SLOWLY and dont pack your hangers tight. My tanks hold 12 hangers but I never use more than 6 at a time, 4 is even beter. This gives room arround the hangers to flow without a lot of turbulance.

The best results I get are from single sheet tray developement in a stainless tray with no more than 1/8 of an inch of developer rocked constantly as a one shot use. This gives me constant negs with great edges, low chemical use and only the tray to clean but is one neg at a time. I usualy save this for 8x10 or very special shots.

If you want a daylight tank the options are Jobo, HP Combiplan, and the old Nikor stainless tank.

I like the Nikor tank, but they are not easy to find and tend to be expensive.

There's also a cheap Yankee tank that some people use, but few recommend it. I have one, and I just use the film rack in my 5x7" deep tanks.

HP Combiplan has done all my 4x5 development for the last 10-years. I am very pleased with it.

hortense said:

HP Combiplan has done all my 4x5 development for the last 10-years. I am very pleased with it.

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I have a Combiplan also and it suits me to a tee. Since I have a temporary darkroom (bathroom) so I the idea of using a daylight was easiest option. It does leak a little around the lid, so now i use 34 oz. instead of the 36 oz. that HP recommends since it will cover the film. I also, don't fully invert the tank but tilt it about 60 degrees each way for my agitation. The only other problem I have with it was that I snapped the keeper on one but that is easily fixable with some fishing line.

g

iserious said:

I take it you're referring to "Photographer's Formulary" ? I'll check out their site. Sounds interesting. I'm not too kean on processing sheet film in regular trays. The sheets tend to stick together and well.. I can't see how someone would manage doing it this way on a regular basis. However if there's a special tray designed for this, I'd certainly be interested in checking it out.

Click to expand...

The two Slosher Tray vendors whose trays I own and use are Photographer's Formulary and Summitek. These slosher trays have individual compartments for each sheet of film. Each compartment is vented at the corners/sides and bottom to allow the processing chemistry to flow freely through. The PF and Summitek slosher trays (cradles) are of very similar design - the Summitek version is a little less expensive than the PF version (I believe that the Summitek is the original and the PF is a clone).

Here is the Summitek Url http://www.summitek.com/cradle.html They show a photo

I have 2 Yankee 4x5 developing tanks. They are surely suitable when you figure out how to correctly use it. Development can be very even in these tanks, but, with the difficulty they pose in agitatation it is easy to mess up.

The Yankee 4x5 daylight tanks are light tight, but surely not water tight. You will not be able to invert the tank much less tip it 45degrees without having liquid come out.

Agitation is done by lifting the left side of the tank off the table/sink up about a half an inch, putting it down then lifting the right side up about a half inch putting it down and repeating, never lifting the tank completely up.

The lid is just a piece of plastic that rests on top of the tank. The lid does not seal itself to the tank and jiggles around loosely. If you tilt the tank too much (over 15degrees) it will leak all over the place.

I find I need to tape (as per the instructions that came with it) the lid to the tank. Each session applying enough masking tape to avoid having the lid come off when changing chemicals. Also, bout the chemicals, you'll need 55oz of fluid to develop 4x5 in one of these things.

It takes at least 25-30 seconds to fully drain it between development stages.. Filling takes at least 20seconds. I usually fill the tank with developer then load the film onto the rack that holds 12 single sheets (or 24 back to back) and then put the loaded rack right into the developer in the dark then put the lid on to avoid the time it takes to fill the tank. Taping it up once I turn the light on..

The hole in the lid does allow one to monitor development temperature using up to the thickness of a glass kodak darkroom thermometer throughout the whole process..

For the money, I say they are worth it!

If you dont want to deal with much of the stuff I mentioned above and are looking for a 35/120 style developing tank that you can dance around with the Yankee 4x5 tanks are not for you.

The HP CombiPlan tank has been the best solution for me so far. It's got a few drawbacks, rather slow fill and drain times being the worst of them, but on the whole offers far more advantages than disadvantages for someone who doesn't process a whole lot of sheet film.

My Yankee sheet film tanks have 2 lids. One is light tight and goes over the top fitting into a groove in the tank. It allows you to pour in the solution, and has a light trap built into it.

It allows agitaion to a limited extent.

The second lid is soft rubber and goes on over the outside edge of the tanks. It forms a water tight gasket when on the tank.

So, there are either 2 or 3 types of tanks, or a variety of lids for the tanks that do exist.

Since I have used Jobo for over 20 years, these have been in storage and I got part of them out tonight to refresh my memory. I had forgotten some of the details. Sounds as if there are quite a few options available.

PE

iserious said:

I started out (and have since been) developing both 4x5 sheet film & roll film in-Jobo. The system has always worked great for me, despite complaints that I've heard over the years. Tempering is dead-on, agitation and times are easily kept consistent from batch to batch.

Click to expand...

If you have the Jobo you can use your 2509n reels and 2500er Series tanks with a different top for inversion. While they take a lot of chemicals its just the ticket for dilute Rodinal.. What's a litre or two of 1:100 Rodinal afterall!

With the CombiPlans I'd forget about inversion with them.. It works but control is less than optimal. I use my CombiPlans as a dip-and-dunk process line and here they are ideal. The main downsids to the chain is the cost for 2 or 3 of the tanks and the need to start off in complete darkness (but once the chain is going film is no longer as sensitive to light).

Hi,
Imho, buy nothing else. If you are not using a lift on the jobo you have a wonderful daylight, non-leaking tank already. Best part is after doing the developing part you can slap the tank on the jobo for the rest of your processing. It don't get better than this .

I see alot of people saying jobo 2500 tank and reel too expensive. Do compairsions to other "current" daylight processing options. They are not cheap, but are the best option. I bought a new cpe+ and figure after about 8 years worth of use it will have paid for it's self in less chemical use. Not to mention time saved, quality processing, etc. Not to mention you can do roll film in the 2500 drum also. Prints in the print drum if needed.

Ihave a friend that bought a jobo in the late 80's and I used it around that time to do E-6 and C-41 roll film and it worked wonderful, "no lift". We used at that time the unicolor chems. Not everyone is rolling in money, I'm not, but overtime, and pinching a few pennies helped me get the jobo, and I don't regret buying it.

Jennifer

Fill/Drain Time Compbi T

fschifano said:

The HP CombiPlan tank has been the best solution for me so far. It's got a few drawbacks, rather slow fill and drain times being the worst of them, but on the whole offers far more advantages than disadvantages for someone who doesn't process a whole lot of sheet film.

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I set my development time for 17-minutes. This way, the fill/drain time become inconsequenquail. To speed up the time use warm water to dilute the developer.

I develop my 4x5 film in individual homemade tubes. I used 1/2inch abs plastic pipe and abs cement to afix a straight cap on one end and female to male adapter cap on the other end. I load the film in through the latter cap and devlop with either minimal agitation or by rolling the tubes in water, both with Pyrocat HD. Builds contrast well and and once loaded you can turn on the lights. If you'd like more detailed info on how to build the tubes let me know. All the best. Shawn

I agree, Shawn. ABS Developing Tubes are Easy and inexpensive to make and easy to fill and dump! You can agitate by inversion if you wish and do stand or semi-stand agitation without leakage.

See: (there was a url link here which no longer exists)

I've used JOBO Multi-tank 2 ... model 2521 for over ten years to dev. all my 4x5 sheets, all film brands. Times are usually very similar to roll film times. The tank holds 1500mls and it is an agitation method. Great if your darkroom is not seriously dark... used in conjunction with my loading tent. My negs are beautiful & I've never had any problems. They are still available here in Australia so I'm sure they are also in NYC.

Steve: I like to use enough developer to cover the film to a depth of about 1 to 1.5 inch. I often do stand developing - or semi-stand.

This requires a large volume of developer (especially for 8x10), but I use Pyrocat-HD (I mix it from scratch) and it is very cheap.

Tom Hoskinson said:

The two Slosher Tray vendors whose trays I own and use are Photographer's Formulary and Summitek.

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Hi Tom,

Can you tell me how deep the liquid must be in the tray, to cover the film?

In a 16x20 tray (for 5x7), it seems you need almost 6 quarts of developer to have an inch of depth in the tray. Does one inch sound about right, or do you need more?

TIA!

Steve